What was your mega-dungeon like?

[kitsune9]

I like that idea. Recently I've been thinking about developing three new ones in my current setting.

A huge Colossus that the giants built called the Titan. Sorta similar to your idea. Except it is partially buried in stone, not mobile.

The other involves the multi-layered partially buried different levels of the city of Kwåhąlk.

The third is this one.

My first real megadungeon was the ruined city of Pesh. It had been destroyed by a meteorite shower, along with the entire nation of Pesh, in my first world setting. There were a lot of outlying ruins before you got there, and some few of the tops of certain buildings were still visible but the rest was buried underground. It required partial excavation to get at some of the buried sections. A lot of relics and artifacts of the Elves, like the parts of the Rod of Seven Parts were buried there. The whole campaign involving it took a couple of years playing time, all told, but led to the resurrection of Pesh and the retirement of the original party.

Another I did a couple of years back moved through time and constantly changed. It wasn't huge but it kept changing in size, design, and content depending on how one was displaced through time.




I think that is a good design principle for large and mega dungeons. Loose association in some cases, but all roughly connected.

My very first megadungeon (designed in the transition days between 1E and 2E) is Katearas, the fortress of the setting's very first lich. It's surrounded by haunted, barren mountains and was once a center for necromantic study in the world. The dungeon has approximately twenty levels. I've detailed sixteen of them but left the exact number deliberately vague so I can expand as I like.

In modern times, the fortress is surrounded by a ruined city that is sought by ambitious necromancers, and that city is surrounded by marshlands. Within this region are several distinct "adventure zones" and dungeon complexes besides the main fortress. I've ran some sort of game in this megadungeon in every edition since 1E. I still have the ancient, pencil-etched maps on graph paper and keyed room entries on notebook paper, although I've updated to an electronic format in the 3E days.

In 4E, I'm currently designing a new megadungeon tenatively called the Numtanna Barrows. The idea here is that it's essentially an exotic city setting, complete with its own basic economy and power struggles. It's so old that no one really recalls its original purpose or designers, but over the centuries, various cultures and empires have inhabited or claimed parts of it. There's an enclave of dwarves on the fourth level so that characters can get a base of operations within the dungeon, and I'm making a deliberate effort to seed it with quests and appealing areas to seize and control.

Awesome ideas guys! I've got a notebook filled with your secrets now. Thanks!

Happy Gaming!

 

[Mythmere1]

My first one?

Goblinear Crag. Take the cross-section dungeon from the Holmes Basic book, then apply a middle-schooler's thought process to it - bigger is better!

There were about 20 levels and sublevels in the masterpiece I created, with the level maps based on the B1 style.

I looked at it a couple of months ago, and the maps TOTALLY sucked. And we had a heck of a lot of fun with it. Kidlike appreciation of adventure and a total readiness to have fun trumps a bad dungeon map any day.

 

[Dykstrav]

Awesome ideas guys! I've got a notebook filled with your secrets now. Thanks!

Well... All I told you was about the basic, overarching concept. If you dig the idea, allow me to share with you some of the more popular areas of the complex. Just keep in mind that most of my crunch is still in 3.5 or earlier terms, as I haven't used much of it in 4E yet.

The Codex of Unending Blasphemies: Off the sixth level is a natural cavern complex behind a door of beaten copper engraved with the Abyssal and Infernal languages. Inside the caverns, copper plates are set into the walls, ceilings, and floor. Each plate is engraved with the unique name and personal history of a demon or devil, along with its true name (if the lich knows it). This place serves as the lich's library of infernal lore, where he may select a demon or devil and compel it to serve his purposes by exploiting his knowledge of it. The place is attended by ghost archivists, who constantly scribe infernal lore by using bone-carved styluses they control with telekinesis. A powerful devil called Istibiox guards the place along with a cadre of lesser devils, his service was secured when one of the archdukes of Hell parleyed with the lich in exchange for the destruction of his own true name from the archives.

The Abbatoir of Sanguine Delights: Somewhere between the tenth and eleventh levels is an arcane laboratory that holds one of the lich's early experiments with vampirism. He aspired to create a new type of vampire, one that could consume a target's blood with a gaze attack. His results were less that he had hoped--the new vampires were able to experience the taste of the blood of anyone they looked at, but unable to draw nourishment from any blood they consumed. Only his arcane infusions kept the starving vampires ambulatory and conscious. Eventually, he tired of feeding them through alchemical means and simply taught them how to brew their nourishment for themselves. The horrific process requires fresh blood, but the "donor" must still be alive through the entire alchemical process that they must use to consume it. These vampires roam the lower levels and sometimes the upper, constantly searching for blood and in a state of near-frenzy because they are constantly on the brink of starvation. Adventuring parties may some times find their captured companions here, if they find the place quickly enough after their capture.

Cathedral of Decay: On the second level is a temple dedicated to the world's first necromancer. As a practical matter, it also contains several obelisks and altars carved of an oily, black stone that is always cold to the touch. These fixtures serve as channeling devices to distribute negative energy throughout the first, second, and third levels, allowing some undead to ignore their traditional weaknesses and some intelligent undead to draw upon its arcane reserves for extra spells or to empower their spells. Characters that can find and destroy the Cathedral of Decay find the undead on the first three levels easier to deal with (at least, until it is rebuilt). It is guarded by throngs of zombies infested with maggots and vermin, dire maggots and flies, and an unliving sorcerer/priest who can communicate telepathically with the maggots and flies throught the first three levels. Quite likely, he is well aware of what the characters are up to and what their capabilities are.

 

[kitsune9]

Well... All I told you was about the basic, overarching concept. If you dig the idea, allow me to share with you some of the more popular areas of the complex. Just keep in mind that most of my crunch is still in 3.5 or earlier terms, as I haven't used much of it in 4E yet.

The Codex of Unending Blasphemies: Off the sixth level is a natural cavern complex behind a door of beaten copper engraved with the Abyssal and Infernal languages. Inside the caverns, copper plates are set into the walls, ceilings, and floor. Each plate is engraved with the unique name and personal history of a demon or devil, along with its true name (if the lich knows it). This place serves as the lich's library of infernal lore, where he may select a demon or devil and compel it to serve his purposes by exploiting his knowledge of it. The place is attended by ghost archivists, who constantly scribe infernal lore by using bone-carved styluses they control with telekinesis. A powerful devil called Istibiox guards the place along with a cadre of lesser devils, his service was secured when one of the archdukes of Hell parleyed with the lich in exchange for the destruction of his own true name from the archives.

The Abbatoir of Sanguine Delights: Somewhere between the tenth and eleventh levels is an arcane laboratory that holds one of the lich's early experiments with vampirism. He aspired to create a new type of vampire, one that could consume a target's blood with a gaze attack. His results were less that he had hoped--the new vampires were able to experience the taste of the blood of anyone they looked at, but unable to draw nourishment from any blood they consumed. Only his arcane infusions kept the starving vampires ambulatory and conscious. Eventually, he tired of feeding them through alchemical means and simply taught them how to brew their nourishment for themselves. The horrific process requires fresh blood, but the "donor" must still be alive through the entire alchemical process that they must use to consume it. These vampires roam the lower levels and sometimes the upper, constantly searching for blood and in a state of near-frenzy because they are constantly on the brink of starvation. Adventuring parties may some times find their captured companions here, if they find the place quickly enough after their capture.

Cathedral of Decay: On the second level is a temple dedicated to the world's first necromancer. As a practical matter, it also contains several obelisks and altars carved of an oily, black stone that is always cold to the touch. These fixtures serve as channeling devices to distribute negative energy throughout the first, second, and third levels, allowing some undead to ignore their traditional weaknesses and some intelligent undead to draw upon its arcane reserves for extra spells or to empower their spells. Characters that can find and destroy the Cathedral of Decay find the undead on the first three levels easier to deal with (at least, until it is rebuilt). It is guarded by throngs of zombies infested with maggots and vermin, dire maggots and flies, and an unliving sorcerer/priest who can communicate telepathically with the maggots and flies throught the first three levels. Quite likely, he is well aware of what the characters are up to and what their capabilities are.

These are great! Keep 'em coming!

 

[Jack7]

The Codex of Unending Blasphemies: Off the sixth level is a natural cavern complex behind a door of beaten copper engraved with the Abyssal and Infernal languages. Inside the caverns, copper plates are set into the walls, ceilings, and floor. Each plate is engraved with the unique name and personal history of a demon or devil, along with its true name (if the lich knows it). This place serves as the lich's library of infernal lore, where he may select a demon or devil and compel it to serve his purposes by exploiting his knowledge of it. The place is attended by ghost archivists, who constantly scribe infernal lore by using bone-carved styluses they control with telekinesis. A powerful devil called Istibiox guards the place along with a cadre of lesser devils, his service was secured when one of the archdukes of Hell parleyed with the lich in exchange for the destruction of his own true name from the archives.

The Abbatoir of Sanguine Delights: Somewhere between the tenth and eleventh levels is an arcane laboratory that holds one of the lich's early experiments with vampirism. He aspired to create a new type of vampire, one that could consume a target's blood with a gaze attack. His results were less that he had hoped--the new vampires were able to experience the taste of the blood of anyone they looked at, but unable to draw nourishment from any blood they consumed. Only his arcane infusions kept the starving vampires ambulatory and conscious. Eventually, he tired of feeding them through alchemical means and simply taught them how to brew their nourishment for themselves. The horrific process requires fresh blood, but the "donor" must still be alive through the entire alchemical process that they must use to consume it. These vampires roam the lower levels and sometimes the upper, constantly searching for blood and in a state of near-frenzy because they are constantly on the brink of starvation. Adventuring parties may some times find their captured companions here, if they find the place quickly enough after their capture.

Cathedral of Decay: On the second level is a temple dedicated to the world's first necromancer. As a practical matter, it also contains several obelisks and altars carved of an oily, black stone that is always cold to the touch. These fixtures serve as channeling devices to distribute negative energy throughout the first, second, and third levels, allowing some undead to ignore their traditional weaknesses and some intelligent undead to draw upon its arcane reserves for extra spells or to empower their spells. Characters that can find and destroy the Cathedral of Decay find the undead on the first three levels easier to deal with (at least, until it is rebuilt). It is guarded by throngs of zombies infested with maggots and vermin, dire maggots and flies, and an unliving sorcerer/priest who can communicate telepathically with the maggots and flies throught the first three levels. Quite likely, he is well aware of what the characters are up to and what their capabilities are.

I gotta admit, I also think ideas like this are outstanding. The reason to me is simple, they bend or distort or destroy expectations.

I might not for example as a DM be interesting in the exact content of those suggestions (though in this case I like them all generally speaking), but they are so open-ended and creative in construction that they could easily be adapted in the particulars to almost any situation.

More importantly, in my opinion and as I said they warp expectations. Far too often in dungeons or the game in general one encounters the same ole basic templates and designs and items and creatures/monsters. The players become able, in a relatively short period of time to be able to anticipate, prepare for, and basically know everything about most any situation, item, or creature they encounter. This is I suspect extremely boring to both the PC and the player over time, as only the facade and outer dressing of the game's appearance changes, encounter to encounter.

Far better to me, like Dykstrav has done, try to use the basics of the game to come up with situations, events, places, items, etc. that bend and warp the expectations. to keep the game and the setting and the adventure new and fresh and original (even if only in the sense of peculiar and unexpected and unanticipated and unlooked for variations on the common-place). And to me that's true of setting, game flexibility, and adventure, whether that adventure is a megadungeon (a very good place for peculiar variations on the already known, as well as the original and extraordinary thing) or just a more ordinary, run of the mill adventure.

So I'm a big proponent of the original, the creative, and the unanticipated event, adventure, item, and creature/being.

 

[Ariosto]

Far too often in dungeons or the game in general one encounters the same ole basic templates and designs and items and creatures/monsters.

The problem was recognized at least as far back as 1976, when it was noted in the foreword to Supplement III. Random powers for artifacts were introduced therein. Magazine articles offered tables for rolling up random monsters, and Jon Pickens's method for demons was revised as Appendix D in the DMG.

Tunnels & Trolls (at least as of 5th ed.) has no list of magic items, and the closest thing to "official" treatments of the special powers of (e.g.) vampires or werewolves would be found in the separate game Monsters! Monsters!. The sample monster ratings are explicitly not definitive.

There are good points to a bit of standard issue; not everyone is up to plunging headfirst into something as unfamiliar as Empire of the Petal Throne. "But," as Tim Kask observed in 1976, "somewhere along the line, D & D lost some of its flavor, and began to become predictable."

Many seem to like it that way, and many others just to take for granted that ringing the same old changes is the way it's done (except for changing mechanisms with each new "edition"). Even now, it's probably not such a problem for a novice, to whom the whole thing is new, as for an old hand who really has seen it all before.

The way to break the mold is to start with ideas -- images in particular seem most commonly useful -- and then translate them into game terms. Depending on how much imagination one wants to put into it, that could range from "re-skinning" stock elements, or using them in unusual roles, to creating entirely new ones; from the occasional "special" to a whole distinctive world. I would note that although Greg Stafford's Glorantha is populated with Dwarves and Elves, Trolls and Dragons, they have qualities that set them apart from those in other mythologies. He has "little people", too, but Ducks are definitely different from Hobbits!

 

[Dykstrav]

Of course there's been discussion while the site has been slashdotted...

I never really tried (or try now) to make my encounters or dungeons "outside the box" or anything like that, my approach is just to figure out a good reason for the elements that I want. It's much easier to design a cool encounter when you work out why the encounter is there in the first place. Besides which, role playing the monsters is a big part of the DM's fun. I get to be the lich selecting monsters to stock my dungeon with!

As far as player knowledge, I do think it takes away a lot of the flavor and mystique to reduce monster knowledge to a die roll. I reskin constantly and shamelessly, although nothing quite beats designing a monster from scratch and unleashing it against hapless characters.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I have had a few and my one fast rule I try to build around them is; why do adventures keep coming back to them? The answers, one the mega-dungeon is on the way and another information.

In the dungeon is on the way, I have a valley that at one time housed a dwarven city and mines (yea, like that one), it is a short cut but off the trade routes. The whole valley has ruins running it, home to bandits, raiders and monsters. The players 'just set up base camp' and spend some time going from one to another mine / ruin.

Information - I have an island that is an anicent burial ground. The people that created have long gone but at their time, their afterlife myth made them create tombs for their dead. This was in the form of a whole city, when a person died, everything they owned was taken and placed into their vaults, their spirits free to carry on their day-to-day business. Players go to the isle of the dead to talk to the spirits or recover items. Why is there stuff still on the island? Gases that seep from the ground that cause a number of effects, one seeing the ghost after a short exposure, followed by paranoia and rage, then death. Also, underwater monsters along the shore.

 

[grodog]

However, I'd like to know if you [designed your mega-dungeon] AND managed to run your players through it.

Yep, although it wasn't used nearly as extensively as I'd have liked. I created my own version of Castle Greyhawk: 17 levels deep, with lots of sub-levels (40 total levels in original conception). I think the deepest folks ever got was one of the sub-levels on 5. I've returned to the Castle over the past few years in general, and in earnest since December 2008, and have designed another 6 levels (plus one geomorphs level; all are viewable in various states of completion over on Knights & Knaves in the Megadungeon forum @ KNIGHTS & KNAVES ALEHOUSE :: View Forum - Megadungeons!), as well as generally wanting to revise the old Castle design.

I don't currently have any players for the Castle, but will be DMing S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth soon, which also has some very nice possibilities for expansion

Nowadays I have a megadungeon set below the city of Jakalla on Tekumel, for Empire of the Petal Throne (OD&D with Barker's house rules, basically. [snip]

So all the different places are connected in various ways, but each is like a mini-dungeon in itself because each section originally served a distinct purpose. [snip]

So for my EPT game, the megadungeon served as a long (8 month?) initial focus (and they missed large portions of the levels they explored) and a jumping-off point for other exploits. I doubt that they will go back to it, but to me it has served its purpose and will remain the stuff of legends. Lots of crazy, brutal stuff happened down there!

That sounds great, Korgoth! Have you shared any of your levels? I'd love to check them out

 

[Mark]

Green Ronin Online Store: Dungeons of Doom is a useful book for creating a megadungeon as the maps are all done for you with thematic sections and sprawling cave systems and huge caverns.