What would a medieval fantasy world (like GH or FR) be like in the far future?

[Zappo]

Unless there is some rule preventing it (ala Arcanum), magic and technology are going to be used together as often as possible. I don't think that you'd have mostly wizards and scientists ignoring each other. I think it's more likely that you'd have equipes composed of both, working on solving problems in ways that either approach by itself would find difficult or inefficient.

For example, making a self-guided car is very costly by magic (check the prices of any transportation items in the DMG - and they don't include heating, radio or airbags, and they don't go very fast) and very hard by technology (currently, we can't even get close to making a self-guided anything to which I'd trust my life). But you could make a normal car and enchant it so that it can drive itself, follow the driving code and avoid obstacles, and it would certainly be much cheaper. And let's not go into what any engineer could do if given the possibility of perpetual motion.

Obviously, this kind of applications are limited by the XP requirement of magic item creation. However, there are just as many ways in which a wizard could help the development and construction of technological items, without creating magical items. He would prepare his spells off a PDA, rather than a spellbook, though.

And what about the implications of widespread alphabetism and schooling? Cantrips could be taught in high school.

 

[Tonguez]

Since only spellcasters can use Alchemy (stoopid DnD rule #24) and Alchemy was the basis of science, magic+tech is pretty much the only possibility in a DnD world.

I'd say any study/advancement of:
Physics isn't going to happen (since magic mucks it all up)
Chemistry is going to be SLOW (since it relies on the aforementioned Alchemy to get a start)
Medicine isn't going to happen (healing works and no germ theory since disease IS caused by evil spirits)
No medicine means biology is greatly impeded too
Biology is going to be slow

 

[Shane_Leahy]

Its not the far future but take a look at Harry Turtledove's The Darkness stories. World War in a magical world. Kinda WWII based, with ships on Ley-lines, Dragons as fighters, large beasts as tanks, etc.

Here is a quote from his website...

The Darkness series is the story of a world war in a world where magic works. When the Duke of Bari suddenly dies, the nation of Algarve, long seething over its defeat a generation ago in the Six Years' War, sees its change to bring his country back, as they see it, into the Algarvian fold--which the countries surrounding Algarve cannot, by treaty, tolerate. As nation after nation declares war, a chain of treaties are invoked, ultimately bringing almost all the Powers into a war of unprecedented destructiveness.
For modern magic is deadlier than magic in eras past. Trained flocks of dragons rain explosive fire down on defenseless cities. Massed infantry race from place to place along a sophisticated network of ley-lines. Rival powers harness sea leviathans to help sabotage one another's ships. The lights are going out all across Derlavai, and will not come back on in this lifetime.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Not much different.

There was a series of FR 2E products that allowed you to run a campaign set in the far past, when Netheril and Corymanthr were thriving thousands of years ago.

There was not a huge difference in everyday life as far as magic or technology - the now timeline actually has weaker magic I guess...

Interesting thought excercise though, I guess it depends on what your PC's do!

 

[Faraer]

What Fusangite said. Most of the other responses are answering the question 'what might happen if this world was real and worked as ours did except with D&D magic?' That might be an interesting question, but as applied to the World of Greyhawk or the Realms, the premise is false. These are not Earthlike worlds that just happen to be fictional, they are imaginative constructs, fairy-tale neverwhens, that work according to the rules of story or gameplay and are not beholden to physics or sociology. That is to say, they're fantasy rather than science fiction.

I wonder what the Realms would be like in 10,000 years. Battlemechs and starships alongside space-faring dragons? Or, would folks just be belting out chainmail and swords like they always did?

10,000 years is hard to answer. In 2,000 years, assuredly the latter.

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

This is a favorite subject of mine too, at least as far as fantasy is concerned. I think that several things have to be taken into account-

What is the nature of progress in the world? Is it a process of holarchical evolution (the theory I generally accept to be true of our own world, though some of my less progressive colleagues think I'm blinkered), a process of apocalyptic decline (the world is "winding down" through cycles, ala Tolkien's ages or the ancient greek ages of man), or a process of Aeonic shifts (a common principle among occultists and mystics, in which "shifts of the ages" change the rules by which the universe functions, and the eschaton of a given age dies with it, never to be fulfilled, in a kind of eternal loop).

Using the Forgotten Realms then as an example-

-Holarchic Evolving Realms-
In the early DR 1400's, rapid advances in transportation and weapons technology, combined with the unstable Faerunian political situation, causes a wave of imperialistic activity in which Faerunian potentates begin a race to collect resources, populations, and trade routes "off-continent"- in places such as Maztica, Zakhara, Kara Tur, and other currently unknown continents. The rapid process of imperialist globalization causes an explosion of wealth and research on the home continent, including a massive codification of magical and metaphysical laws by organized bodies of magic users. The increased democratization of magic and resource power, combined with a swollen merchant class, inspires a wave of liberalization throughout the land, accompanied by rapid advances in production technology. Frequent wars against races with greater fecundity (orcs), more sophisticated magic (elves), or advanced millitary science (dwarves) drives humans to adapt ever greater magical technologies and processes of organization. By the 1800's, Faerunian resource depletion and realpolitik leads to a series of devestating wars (on such a scale the Gods would be all but forced to intervene). If the Realms survive this, they're probably bound for a sort of magi-tech singularity, in which all beings are pulled to a state of immortal, arcane disembodiment- thoughts become reality, and the entire crystal sphere is transformed into a new non-material "outer" plane.

-cyclic realms-
The realms are clearly standing near a chasm- an apocalyptic throwdown the like of which has not been seen since the fall of Netheril. Gods and alliances are coming together in such a way that almost promises a complete realignment of affairs in Faerun (and elsewhere). The fallout could erase magic from the realms completely, or leave it in an even further weakened form. Alternately, the Time of Troubles could have been this cataclysm, and no progress- magical, technological, or otherwise- is bound to occur for the next few millenium, other than the usual decay of nations and cultures.

-Aeonic realms-
The Time of Troubles was a sort of "Equinox of the Gods", realigning affairs in as of yet unknown ways. The laws of magic (or even reality) could be undergoing a dramatic shift that could take the next few centuries to resolve- centuries that could be characterized by the fall of empires, the rise of empires, the discovery of new sources of magical or technological power, the birth of new gods, philosophies, or cults- in any event, these actions will shape the next few millenia in unknown ways.

In any event though, if you want to study these theories of historical progress, there are lots of good books. Robert Wright's Nonzero, as well as the works of Teilhard de Chardin and Ken Wilber are interesting looks at the first theory, while the classic of the second is Oswald Spengler's Decline of the West. Though there aren't any scholarly works on the third that I can think of, the novel The Plato Papers by Peter Ackroyd is a witty look at what such a world looks like- in which dramatic shifts of metaphysical laws completely change our view of reality periodically...

 

[Abisashi]

It seems to me that a lot of the research has been done for any scientist in many D&D worlds - but it's scattered throughout a bunch of magical texts. A wizard who spent some time figuring out what the world did without the intervention of magic (i.e. the sciences) could probably piece some stuff together pretty fast - especially if he was a sun elf who rolled an 18 int and had a headband of intellect +6.

Exploring the laws of physics could revolutionize certain spells (perhaps chain lightning works by brute-forcing a lightning bolt to all of the targets, but by instead manipulating charges and such the spell could be done more easily; the resulting spell might require 10 ranks in knowledge (physics) to use, but be level or two lower.) Studying biology could create better death magic, etc. And hey, why cast Meteor Swarm at your enemies castle when you could cast Oppenheimer's Microscopic Division and set off a nuclear explosion - which, as the result of physical processes, ignores spell resistance? You just need some enriched uranium for your spell component, and the spell sets off and sustains the fision reaction. You can even use magic to aquire and enrich the uranium. After additional study, you could just convert a small amount of matter into anti-matter. You win.

On a side note, it seems reasonable to assume that alchemy is only open to spellcasters because all the chemistry information is in books of magic, written by wizards who have no idea what they have stumbled upon in their search for arcane power.


Other comments: Turtledove's Darkness series is quite good I think, and would be worth looking into if you are interested in magic that advances and improves. Another interesting source for this would be Urban Arcana, at least for farther along (using PDAs for spellbooks, sending spells through email, etc.)

I love threads like these.

 

[dead]

As to how magic does, that depends on the philosophy of magic in your world. If magic is 'dreams, wishes, intentions, emotions' then it might well fade away into the background or disappear altogether.

Indeed, in the '83 GH boxed set, it says magic is fading in the world. That's what made me wonder if GH would be dead magic. Maybe it'd be like Warhammer 40K. I don't think there's magic in that, but there are orcs and elves and psionics.

 

[dead]

The only advantage technology has -- to my mind -- is that any chump can use it.

Almost any chump can cast magic in D&D. All you need is a 10 INT and you can cast a devestating Magic Missile!

 

[dead]

Not much different.

There was a series of FR 2E products that allowed you to run a campaign set in the far past, when Netheril and Corymanthr were thriving thousands of years ago.

There was not a huge difference in everyday life as far as magic or technology - the now timeline actually has weaker magic I guess...

There was one difference in FR's Arcane Age: Netheril 2E AD&D product line: It was 1E AD&D!!!!!!!!! Yes, in the appendix, they gave you all the rules to play 1E in this 2E product! Remember, the Time of Troubles ushered in the 2E rules. Everything before then was 1E.

Similarly for GH, the adventure "Fate of Istus" ushered in 2E.

Hmm . . . in 10,000 years time, GH will be using . . . 24th Edition D&D. This precludes time travel into the future because I can't possibly get my hands on an edition that hasn't been released yet!!!!