What would you actually want from an arcane half-caster in 1D&D PHB?

[Incenjucar]

Around half the characters from Fairy Tail would work as starting points.

 

[see]

I still don't get people declaring that a "true Gish" is utterly unlike the original gish, which as an AD&D fighter/magic-user was the epitome of "two totally separate things they’re kinda good at". It seems a choice of terminology designed to maximize confusion.

 

[mellored]

"two totally separate things they’re kinda good at".

See. I don't want them to be totally separate things.

I want integrated, like making a giant ice blade and swinging it.

 

[see]

See. I don't want them to be totally separate things.

That's fine. My issue is not the desire, but the use of inherently confusing terminology to express the desire.

A definition of "true gish" under which the original, word-coined-specifically-to-describe-it "gish" is not a "true gish" is just ridiculous. Pick an actual example of what you want from fiction or the history of RPGs, and say you want a true <whatever the example's actual name was>.

 

[Incenjucar]

I believe the term has mutated since it just meant "multiclass". Otherwise the only true gish would be a githyanki.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't want a Gish.
Gish is based on the Githyanki concept of older editions of a character who has the choice of attacking like a fighter or casting like a wizard.

I don't want the Magus
The Magus is based n the concept of using spellstrikes to make spells use a weapon attack instead of a saving throw.

What I'm looking for isn't the Artificer or Bard or Eldritch Knight.
Again as the Gish, the Artificer and Bard are not combining the arcane magic with another element of the character.

What I am looking for is 1 of 2 things. Or both.

1. A class that lets you make the Attack action and swap 1 or more attacks for 1 or more arcane spells which can affect the caster and/or their other attacks.
2. A class that can casts an arcane spell and make 1 or 2 attacks or a Dodge as part of that spells' resolution

Another with spells designed to be casted on the same turn as combat actions.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't want a Gish.
Gish is based on the Githyanki concept of older editions of a character who has the choice of attacking like a fighter or casting like a wizard.

I don't want the Magus
The Magus is based n the concept of using spellstrikes to make spells use a weapon attack instead of a saving throw.

What I'm looking for isn't the Artificer or Bard or Eldritch Knight.
Again as the Gish, the Artificer and Bard are not combining the arcane magic with another element of the character.

What I am looking for is 1 of 2 things. Or both.

1. A class that lets you make the Attack action and swap 1 or more attacks for 1 or more arcane spells which can affect the caster and/or their other attacks.
2. A class that can casts an arcane spell and make 1 or 2 attacks or a Dodge as part of that spells' resolution

Another with spells designed to be casted on the same turn as combat actions.

Eh, why not just expand the mechanics concept of the blade cantrips into leveled spells?

I mean also the other stuff, but the core of the class should be making attacks that are both a weapon attack and a spell. A spell that involves making a weapon attack.

 

[Minigiant]

Eh, why not just expand the mechanics concept of the blade cantrips into leveled spells?

I mean also the other stuff, but the core of the class should be making attacks that are both a weapon attack and a spell. A spell that involves making a weapon attack.

That's option 2.

It's the simplest path.

Leveled spells that grant weapon attacks with arcane themed rider effects.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Eh, why not just expand the mechanics concept of the blade cantrips into leveled spells?

I mean also the other stuff, but the core of the class should be making attacks that are both a weapon attack and a spell. A spell that involves making a weapon attack.

Wouldn't that just be solved by adding a bunch of new spells that arcane tricksters, blade singers and eldritch knights could all use?

Heck, I invented a bunch of those back in the 3E days, like turning a sword slash into a ranged attack (which I think I stole from the Al-Qadim computer game).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Wouldn't that just be solved by adding a bunch of new spells that arcane tricksters, blade dancers and eldritch knights could all use?

Heck, I invented a bunch of those back in the 3E days, like turning a sword slash into a ranged attack (which I think I stole from the Al-Qadim computer game).

If the 1/3 casters had enough spell slots to be doing it most of the time and also have utility magic, maybe. The Bladesinger is a wizard. Spend all your spells surviving the front line and you still won’t do enough damage for enemies to care that you can’t be hit. Or, onky spend part of the time in the melee, and use your spell slots to actually wreak havoc on the field of battle.

The rogue and fighter are always a rogue and a fighter.

Idk why this is hard to grasp. We don’t want to multiclass into a gish, we just want to play a character whose whole class identity is being an arcane warrior.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'd like the Bard to be a half-caster - like a ranger or paladin. Buff his HD to d10, as well as his thieving and martial skills. Should have a lore ID option too.

I get, and like, the AD&D vibe, but that feels like it'd probably be wildly unbalanced.

 

[ECMO3]

What would you actually want from an arcane half-caster in 1D&D PHB?

Tell me if there are missing choices I need to add, I'll be around for 20-30 minutes.

I would like a Paladin subclass as an arcane half-caster Gish. Allow them to select Wizard, Bard or Sorc cantrips with blessed warrior, have an arcane focused channel divinity and then arcane spells on their spell list.

Another option would be a Cleric build. Take the protector aura for weapons and armor and then for subclass fold in stuff and spells from the Arcana Cleric from 5e. Probably allow a couple Sorcerer cantrips too as part of the subclass.

I think either of these would fit nicely and provide some alternatives to the plethora of current 5E Gishes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I wouldn’t mind a half-caster (artificer style) Bard with a solid spell list, decent armaments, and expanded upon inspiration mechanics that let them insult someone into submission.

I want an Irish fili, a warrior-poet, and a keeper of lore.

 

[FrogReaver]

Wouldn't that just be solved by adding a bunch of new spells that arcane tricksters, blade dancers and eldritch knights could all use?

Heck, I invented a bunch of those back in the 3E days, like turning a sword slash into a ranged attack (which I think I stole from the Al-Qadim computer game).

Yep. Quite a few EK and AT exclusive bonus actions spells that pair well with an attack action could work well.

Like AT should have a bonus action illusion spell that allows to sneak attack without advantage.

 

[mellored]

Like AT should have a bonus action illusion spell that allows to sneak attack without advantage.

Put an illusory bucket on their head.
Now they are blind.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I still don't get people declaring that a "true Gish" is utterly unlike the original gish, which as an AD&D fighter/magic-user was the epitome of "two totally separate things they’re kinda good at". It seems a choice of terminology designed to maximize confusion.

tbh I think that the term 'gish' is pretty useless these days. It's been stretched to include everything with any semblance of magic+weapon.

A paladin is a gish. A bard is a gish. A warlock is a gish. Timmy the gnome wizard with 8 Con, who hit a goblin with a dagger seconds before being over-killed in the first encounter of LMoP is a gish.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

"Gish" started off as a bad term and has just gotten worse, since it doesn't actually describe anything, so everyone just assumes everyone else understands what they mean by it.

The lone exception: when your character is a githyanki. Gish your brains out, in that case.

 

[Lidgar]

I get, and like, the AD&D vibe, but that feels like it'd probably be wildly unbalanced.

If designed similar to a ranger or paladin, it should be fine. Well maybe not paladin - those are wildly unbalanced.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I voted basicly the magus, but I really mean a half caster half martial with at least some spells that it gets that others don't that interact with weapons or attacks.