What would you change for d20 Modern 2.0

[Flynn]

So in the end, you still end up with at least three books. LOL!

But I wouldn't need any but the core to actually play the game. In theory you could run a D20 Modern game with the single book, running a campaign of over a hundred or more sessions within a two or three year real-time window, and not need any other book, period. You can't do that with just the PHB. XP, monsters and treasure aren't covered in the PHB, for example.

Sure, the Menace Manual is nice, but you don't need it. All you need for a full-length D20 Modern campaign is the core D20 Modern book.

Does that explain my position a little better, REG?

Enjoy,
Flynn

 

[Ranger REG]

Does that explain my position a little better, REG?

I'm not saying that a singular core rulebook is bad.

I'm also not saying that a three-volume core set is bad, either.

If WotC can profit from just publishing just one book, then that's great. But so far, the company haven't ordered up a second printing run, unlike the more profitable D&D.

 

[Ranger REG]

I've used the equipment list and the incantations rules, but Urban Arcana itself as a campaign model holds no appeal for me - my idea of modern fantasy has nothing to do with Dungeons and Dragons.

Meh. That's up to you. FWIW, at least other gamers can tweak stats from Monster Manual and such, just as much as Storyteller fans can port Vampire and Werewolf for WoD.

<Hick Accent> "Is that just plum wrong? UN-appropriate?"

Why widen the gap between D&D and d20 Modern? It's bad enough that d20 Modern is #3 selling RPG line, even when the Star Wars line is not pushing out new product for nearly a year. I mean what does that tell you?

As I said before, if you don't like Urban Arcana then don't buy it, but don't denigrate d20 Modern for doing so. It's just a worldbook/toolkit.

 

[JPL]

You forget Special Unit 2, (a failed UPN TV series) Ghostbusters, and most recently Supernatural and Night Stalkers (recently canceled ABC TV series remake). Also, Charmed.

Haven't seen most of those...but yeah.

Those Charmed girls certainly are healthy-looking girls.

Ghostbusters is a more silly and light-hearted than how I picture Shadow Chasers...closer in tone, in fact, to what seems to me like the default UrbArc setting. "The Real Ghostbusters" cartoon would make a hell of a campaign, though, wouldn't it?

I always told my gaming buddies that because everything I run goes pulpy and surreal on me, if I ever ran a Dark*Matter campaign, it would start out like Mudler and Scully, but by the end someone would be riding the Loch Ness Monster like a horse and throwing grenades at yeti shock troopers. So I wanna suggest that campaign model for d20 Modern 2.0 --- "Dark*Matter, but you ride the Loch Ness Monster like a horse."

----

As to Urban Arcana in general...yeah, it's "D&D world leaks into real world," and people who enjoy that sort of thing will find it is the sort of thing they enjoy. I think the book does a good job of developing that concept --- but if the initial concept is not something you're interested in, then no, you probably won't dig the end result.

 

[King of Old School]

Why widen the gap between D&D and d20 Modern?

Precisely because D&D fans already have D&D. Presumably people who want a modern d20 game want something different. If Wizards just wants to cater to D&D fans who want to play D&D with guns and electronics, they should publish a D&D sourcebook in that genre and be done with it.

KoOS

 

[The Shaman]

Why widen the gap between D&D and d20 Modern? It's bad enough that d20 Modern is #3 selling RPG line, even when the Star Wars line is not pushing out new product for nearly a year. I mean what does that tell you?

Without seeing access to WotC's numbers, it's hard to do much more than speculate.

The fact that George Lucas released the long anticipated climax to the series in the last year, and the fact that Star Wars is one of the most successful and popular franchises of all time, with an immediately recognizible brand name, could have a little something to do with those numbers.

I tend to see inadequate support for d20 Modern by WotC being a pretty significant factor as well. If you look at the television schedule, it is full of shows that draw from the sci-fi, horror, and fantasy genres that d20 Modern is supposed to be designed to translate into a roleplaying game - it's certainly not a lack of popular culture connection (compare the demise of the Western in cinema and television). But the only real setting book is "Dungeons and Dragons with guns."

I think Modern needs a really great setting book - not a 96-page softcover, but a full throttle Eberron-like treatment. The obvious choice, to me anyway, is Dark*Matter: it is The X-Files and Invasion and Alias and Supernatural and Surface. Four skinny soft-covers a year, on marginal genres, with miniscule marketing support, won't get it done - a really bitchin' setting book that doesn't include drow rappers, gnoll pimps, and illithid preachers would be the breakthrough.

Now if I could just get Renton on the phone...

As I said before, if you don't like Urban Arcana then don't buy it, but don't denigrate d20 Modern for doing so. It's just a worldbook/toolkit.

I don't understand the connection between not liking Urban Arcana and "denigrating" d20 Modern.

D20 Modern is my favorite roleplaying game system for exactly the reason you mention: it's a toolkit for all sorts of present/near-future/recent-past genres. Urban Arcana, on the other hand, does nothing for me - my concept of Modern fantasy looks nothing like Dungeons and Dragons spilling over into the Modern world.

 

[Ranger REG]

Precisely because D&D fans already have D&D. Presumably people who want a modern d20 game want something different. If Wizards just wants to cater to D&D fans who want to play D&D with guns and electronics, they should publish a D&D sourcebook in that genre and be done with it.

And I'm sure I want a complete differerent Werewolf game apart from the Vampire, but White Wolf aren't going to make that happen. (Mind you, I want a d20 version, not the GURP version.)

So, why is it okay for White Wolf, Palladium, Hero Games, Steve Jackson Games to do it but not WotC? I mean, TSR tried making completely different games with completely different rulesets while White Wolf were making Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage powered by one Storyteller System, and for their trouble they had to sell their company.

What I'm saying is, why take a huge gamble finding a new set of fanbase when you already got a large pool there? Is there something special about being in the smaller pool?

 

[glass]

As a voice against this suggestion, I would comment that D20 Modern is a WOTC product that only takes the one book to play. That's a much lower investment for the money-tight gamer than three separate books, and that has a lot of appeal in some circles. I would continue to desire and support a single core book concept for D20 Modern 2.0 (or whatever), with a monster manual and then a GM's book to follow, for those that want more material to work with.

If someone is writing their own system, I'd definitely point them to the model shown in D20 Modern, rather than follow the D&D model. I think you'd get better investment and interest.

Out of curiosity, would you like to see D&D move to the single core book model as well?


glass.

 

[Job]

I think Modern needs a really great setting book - not a 96-page softcover, but a full throttle Eberron-like treatment. The obvious choice, to me anyway, is Dark*Matter: it is The X-Files and Invasion and Alias and Supernatural and Surface. Four skinny soft-covers a year, on marginal genres, with miniscule marketing support, won't get it done - a really bitchin' setting book that doesn't include drow rappers, gnoll pimps, and illithid preachers would be the breakthrough.

I agree with Shaman on this. I have found the D20M ruleset to be useful and a nice migration of the D&D v3.5 methods into the modern era, but just can't bring myself to run a modern game with D&D monsters and magic. Sure, D20M has a few problems that could be corrected or enhanced in a V2.0, but I recently found myself spending a LOT of time creating my own setting because I just couldn't accept the jarring juxtaposition of those D&D monsters and magic into 2005-era USA. Based on Shaman's comment, I've been prompted to order the Dark*Matter setting book.

What I'm really looking for is something along the lines of a Delta Green-like setting and campaign set, but with less dependency on CoC mythos.

Job.

 

[Flynn]

Out of curiosity, would you like to see D&D move to the single core book model as well?

If it weren't for nostalgia, I'd say Yes to that. As popular as D&D is, you can easily expect to see lots of support materials produced for it, but I've always been a fan of a game system that only needed one book to run and play a campaign, and the rest that are published are just extras. The money I have for spending on gaming books is limited (particularly since I save most of it to go to GenCon every year), and I prefer investing in systems that do not require me to buy three $40 books just to play and/or run the game effectively.

But in the case of D&D, there is a sense of nostalgia in handling a PHB, a DMG and a Monster Manual. It's just par for the course, part of the whole feeling of being in a D&D campaign, and so for D&D, I'd make the exception.

But as a game purchaser, I don't usually invest in a new gaming system that requires me to buy two or more books just to run a game. It's too much of an investment for something I might not be able to actually enjoy due to time constraints.

The new World of Darkness system and Grim Tales are good examples of what is probably my favorite approach. In both cases, the creators released a core system book, which you can use for running a longterm campaign (while Grim Tales doesn't give you monster stats, it does give you a monster creation section to "roll your own", so antagonists are covered). The supplemental books (such as Vampire the Requiem or Slavelords of Cydonia) expand your options greatly, but aren't necessary to use the system to run campaigns in.

Hope this helps,
Flynn