D&D (2024) What would you like in the 2024 DMG Instead of the Bastion System?

[dave2008]

I think having an improved bastion system is a fine addition. However, I really want a bunch of fleshed out alternate and option rules with explanation on how they could affect your game. I also think the encounter builder needs to have a discussion on how to adjust it for your group beyond just the number of PCs.

 

[Gorck]

If they did a manual of the Planes I'd be fine with that, but so far the DMG is all we have as sad as it is. Besides a Cosmology section is confirmed.

I'd love to have a separate Manual of the Planes if it had some handy dandy encounter tables. For my daughter and her friend, I was considering sending them to the Shadowfel, but I had to scour the internet to find out what creatures I could expect them to find there other than Shadar-Kai. Even Kobold Plus, as helpful as it is for me, doesn't have any planar location filter to it.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I'd love to have a separate Manual of the Planes if it had some handy dandy encounter tables. For my daughter and her friend, I was considering sending them to the Shadowfel, but I had to scour the internet to find out what creatures I could expect them to find there other than Shadar-Kai. Even Kobold Plus, as helpful as it is for me, doesn't have any planar location filter to it.

Sworrowsworn, any kind of Undead (but especially Skull Lords), Darkiling, Darkiling Elders, Meenlocks, Drow, as you mentioned Shadar Kai, Shadowdragons, Shadow Demons, Spore Druids, and while not typical, I'd add Succubi, Mindflayers, Aboleths and Killer Space Clowns for extra horror vibes.

 

[Gorck]

Darkiling, Darkiling Elders, Meenlocks

Huh. I would have considered these three for the Feywild, not the Shadowfel. See, this is why I need this nonexistent 5e Manual of the Planes!

 

[Queer Venger]

Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that Matt Colville's strongholds and followers is exactly this, if you want to see what this concept given it's own book looks like.

Yes, that is what I thought, and I already own Strongholds & followers. I agree that this system should really be its own book for those who want that level of play in their campaigns. The 2024 DMG should really expand on optional rules for DM's, like bringing back skill challenges from 4e (which even Matt Mercer uses).

 

[Lidgar]

This. Thoughtful, meaningful PC development that is tied to a substantial gp investment. It can be magic item creation, kingdom building, training, running a business, upkeep for followers, or whatever. If I'm playing a treasure hunter, I want meaningful options to spend all that gold.

 

[dave2008]

This. Thoughtful, meaningful PC development that is tied to a substantial gp investment. It can be magic item creation, kingdom building, training, running a business, upkeep for followers, or whatever. If I'm playing a treasure hunter, I want meaningful options to spend all that gold.

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Or they could reduce the amount of gold/treasure expected?

 

[Lidgar]

Or they could reduce the amount of gold/treasure expected?

They could, but I'd still like the options I listed as part of character advancement. It's not really the amount of gold, its having meaningful options with what to do with it.

I know the current DMG and supplements include some of these options, like downtime activities. However, more can be done there to make those systems more thoughtful (but without having to learn a fiddly new subsystem) and directly tied to the game's economy (I know this part is subjective and highly dependent on the campaign being run).

 

[Yaarel]

They could, but I'd still like the options I listed as part of character advancement. It's not really the amount of gold, its having meaningful options with what to do with it.

I know the current DMG and supplements include some of these options, like downtime activities. However, more can be done there to make those systems more thoughtful (but without having to learn a fiddly new subsystem) and directly tied to the game's economy (I know this part is subjective and highly dependent on the campaign being run).

The Bastion system is moreorless the same thing as real estate. Owning real estate is a player facing option, and belongs in the Players Handbook. The Players Handbook has an Economy chapter. Alongside paying for Hirelings, Vehicles, Equipment, Lifestyle, and so on, there also needs to be options for real estate.

Real estate is notable because it comes with important narratives and in-world immersion. Estates like a home or hideout, business operations, living on a pirate ship or in an other plane, along with magical amenities, offer inspiring flavor. The estate, or "Bastion", is especially where players spend their Downtime. The estate helps center a campaign in a way that avoids a feeling of random murder-hobos. Players can build a nest and from there work toward a narrative goal.

The challenges of a Bastion system are:
• Focus on how to choose and build estates, and what their various benefits are.
• Integrate estate building with normal rules like construction costs, Downtime, Lifestyle, and Hirelings including spellcasters.
• As part of the Players Handbook, the estates are the ideal place to spend gp.
• Yet, the estate must motivate players to adventure, rather than "trap" them at home away from adventuring.

The last concern is the trick of a Bastion system. Players need to want to adventure for the purpose of building up their Bastion, which is a means to accomplish their longterm ambition while advancing across tiers. One character might want to be a sovereign over a territory, an other to become an immortal wizard who runs a school, and the Bastion can be part of these ambitions.

 

[Tonguez]

I'd love to have a separate Manual of the Planes if it had some handy dandy encounter tables. For my daughter and her friend, I was considering sending them to the Shadowfel, but I had to scour the internet to find out what creatures I could expect them to find there other than Shadar-Kai. Even Kobold Plus, as helpful as it is for me, doesn't have any planar location filter to it.

I think the internet is precisely the reason why we dont need a separate book of encounter tables, with google and ai you can easily access stuff and literally pull a list of Shadowfell creatures out of your pocket.
The Shadowfell's easy too - just add 'shadow' or 'ethereal' to another creature and bam its a Shadowfell native

Real estate is notable because it comes with important narratives and in-world immersion. Estates like a home or hideout, business operations, living on a pirate ship or in an other plane, along with magical amenities, offer inspiring flavor. The estate, or "Bastion", is especially where players spend their Downtime. The estate helps center a campaign in a way that avoids a feeling of random murder-hobos. Players can build a nest and from there work toward a narrative goal.

• Yet, the estate must motivate players to adventure, rather than "trap" them at home away from adventuring.

While it is very Player focussed Bastions do fundamentally change the nature of the adventuring world and its for that reason that they should be DMG option - it should be up to the DM if they want to run their games and campaign with PCs as Territorial Sovereigns or Master of the Wizards Academy or Captain of the Jolly Roger. Only then should the options be opened to PCs for everything else to unfold