Dragonlance (+) What Would You Want From 5e Dragonlance?

Gadget

Adventurer
I would go along with the no "kitchen sink" option and the epic romance part. Mechanically, I also agree with OP that it is more about the Good/Neutral/Evil axis than the Law vs Chaos one. The Abyss is mentions and used as a curse, but no mention of the Nine Hells or some such. There is also mentions of "blessed realms" or some such. I would add that unlike the OP, I can see Dalamar as evil quite easily, most of his actions that "help" the "good" guys are out of enlightened self interest. One does not need to be a psychopath to be evil. Perhaps something more along the lines of the 4e alignment scale.

I also agree on the importance of Balance in the setting. I'm intrigued by the idea of representing mages mechanically as Warlocks, with pacts for each of the three moons, but the Wizards of High Sorcery are so tied to traditional Wizard archetype I would find it difficult to see implemented. Sorcerers could be practitioners of heretical 'wild magic.' I'd like to see Solamnic Knights as well.

There was also a much greater dividing line between clerical magic and arcane magic, no doubt a product of the AD&D times it was concieved in. So I would not have the Order of the White Robes able to have "restorative" (assuming that means healing) magic.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Many people seem to think DL is only the War of the Lance. But I also enjoy the history involving many elements and eras such as Huma, the high priest and the cataclysm. The history is richer than a lot of people give it credit for. I would like the history to be fleshed out more to make it seem more three dimensional.
The history is very good, yeah. I'd love to play during Huma's time.
1. Reset the timeline. IIRC there have been five ages, and I think human characters in the first book are still alive.
I prefer to just make all of that history, and go forward enough that even the elves are old and running their kingdom or whatever.
2. Keep Dragonlance as Dragonlance. There are no orcs, so that means no orcs. It doesn't mean "we found orcs on an island somewhere."
YEah, I'd be fine with adding some of the newer races like firbolg, but don't add things that explicitly didn't exist before.
3. The first three or four books were better fantasy fiction than game fiction. The bad guys were too, well, stupid and suffered from Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. Please fix that.
If reboot rather than moving forward, yeah, agree. If going forward, basically same deal, let the bad guys be smart.
4. Remove some of the less serious elements of the system. I would eliminate kender, gully dwarves and gnomes as playable races. They can be NPCs if the GM isn't feeling particularly serious.
here i completely disagree. DL has elements of humour and lightness and that is a good thing.
I am comparing this to Dark Sun. The 4th Edition reset the timeline and tried to remain true to Dark Sun, but they weren't entirely successful in staying true.

Some minor tweaks: I literally cannot keep the different knightly orders separate. Those aren't even prestige classes, IMO (although one of the three orders might have spells) but are instead social tools. Which is cool. It's like a background, only you get this through play rather than before you got into playing your cool character.
And yet, the players who are into that do know which order is which. A new iteration could make them more clear, as well.
In the books, characters could switch mage orders. IIRC Magius wore all three robes at different points in his career. In 3e mage orders seemed like prestige classes (or were they feats?) which aren't easily switched. IMO they don't really need different rules. I saw nothing suggesting black robes were stronger or weaker than white robes. I would suggest social tools, much like my idea for knightly orders. If you switch your alignment, you lose the social benefits of being (say) a white robe and can now go and earn the social benefits of being a red robe.
The books explicitly say that Black Robes can't do restorative magic, White Robes have limited direct destruction, and Red Robes are eventually more powerful because they can access all spells but it's a harder path to walk. It's especially clear in the books with Palin, where he deals with the fear of becoming like Raistlin, and chooses White over the Red that he actually wants to be.

Still, they don't have to be subclasses, but I'd definitely be disappointed if they had no mechanical impact.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Playable Draconians. gimme them dragonfolks.
Draconians had weird things that happened when they died: turning to stone, exploding, etc. If they're playable and keep those powers (which, IIRC, are a lot of what makes draconians different than dragonborn), then that means that if they die, they basically can't be brought back to life until you get wish, because every other spell that brings back the dead needs a body.

Are draconians going to be popular if you are at risk of permadeath? It's hard to die in 5e, but there's still that raise dead safety cushion.

If you take the death throes away, what would you add to make them distinguishable from dragonborn?
 

Dire Bare

Legend
Draconians had weird things that happened when they died: turning to stone, exploding, etc. If they're playable and keep those powers (which, IIRC, are a lot of what makes draconians different than dragonborn), then that means that if they die, they basically can't be brought back to life until you get wish, because every other spell that brings back the dead needs a body.

Are draconians going to be popular if you are at risk of permadeath? It's hard to die in 5e, but there's still that raise dead safety cushion.

If you take the death throes away, what would you add to make them distinguishable from dragonborn?
The "death throes" abilities of the classic draconians is problematic, from a player-character perspective.

I was thinking . . . what if those "death throes" aren't really an integral part of draconian physiology, but rather a curse laid upon the first generations birthed by Takhisis's minions. Later generations of draconians are unlikely to manifest this curse, and perhaps even 1st generation draconians aren't guaranteed to carry the curse.

PC draconions . . . no curse, no death throes.
 


I agree. Elmore is classic, but I don't exactly view it as the best art ever. I'd love to see a new style emerge for Dragonlance.

I'd also, as I've said many times before, push the setting forward again, and bring it full circle, rather than reboot it. Treat the First War of The Lance as part of history.

In session 0 read the following;

"The gods were gone for so long, and when they came back it was to war and a century or more of upheaval and turmoil. For the last generation the lands of Krynn have been relatively calm, with the most recent cataclysm solidly in the past. You meet with old friends in the oldest inn in the region, the Inn of The Last Home, in the small tree-top and rope bridge town of Solace. The town is famous for it's Heroes' Tomb, and for being the birthplace of three of the famous Heroes of The Lance, and also for the inn itself, and it's famous fried potatos. Old friends and new greet you in the common room as the smell of cooking fat and spices wafts in from the kitchen. Now, we meet our heroes. "

DL would be a setting where the default assumption is that you are a group of people who know eachother before the campaign starts, and you've come together in a place where many noble quests have begun, to share news with eachother of the rumours you spread out into the world to gather one year ago. You make characters as a group, perhaps with a new group version of the "this is your life" system as an option for people who want some outside inspiration, and figure out what your Quest is, create bonds between party members, establish each PC's place in the world, cover any questions about the game, houserules, expectations, etc. The DM can describe the tone of the campaign, talk about what Romantic Fantasy is, what High Fantasy is, and how they intersect in Dragonlance, and answer questions about the world that players have while making characters.

The system that helps do all this can also act as a sort of guided roleplay engine for the scene of coming together and sharing news, with tables for places you might have gone searching out rumours, and tables for what rumours turned up false and what lead to a discovery, with those rolls helping the DM determine the course of the adventure just like drawing the cards in CoS.

Then, of course, in session 1 (if you're playing out the starting adventure in the book), solace is attacked by the New Dragon Army, or the Knights of Takhisis Returned, or the forces of the oppressive New Ishtar, and the fun kicks off from there.


Not everything would be fully full circle, though. The gods would be present, but be somehow out of balance in the last couple years. The Knights of Solamnia would have rumours of corruption in the higher ranks, with a faction of younger Knights seeking to find this corruption and strike it out, while the Knights of Neraka are internally struggling to reconcile their past and their future in some way, perhaps having come under the wing of a more Neutral god in recent times, or even transitioning in Takhisis' absense to an organization with three orders for each alignment. Maybe the Knights of Solamnia and Neraka have been unified to some degree by the efforts of a Neutral Knighthood dedicated to the librarian god. Some deeply nerdy knights who mix martial and magic traditions, and find the balance between justice and personal glory.

The gods are greatly diminished, and maybe that's for the best, but maybe not as there are signs that Takhisis has returned somehow, or is being returned, just as powerful as ever, but there is no sign of her counterpart, Paladine. I'd be all for some shuffling of identity amongst the gods, with perhaps the librarian god becoming androgynous rather than male, and Paladine and Takhisis having expressions of multiple genders, like sure Paladine was an older knight with a sweet mustache, but in coming back to Krynn, being reborn, perhaps she is a young fiery knight full of passion and the natural charisma to lead by example, platinum haired and beautiful as the dawn.

Or if not that, perhaps the goddess I described is a goddess of knighthood, honor, righteous passion, and leadership from the frontline, a sort of allied foil to Paladine's more staid and stoic leadership. The Lancer to his Leader, as it were.

Either way, I would include gods both old and new, some changed in the centuries that have passed, some exactly as we remember.

The elves I would have "newly" (within the last hundred years or so) returned to their traditional homes, and in the process of rebuilding them. For them, the cataclysms of the time since the War of The Lance are still fresh, many of their remaining elders recall the time when the gods were wholly absent from the world.

Kender would be presented as more well rounded people, but still very childlike in demeanor, curious, impervious to fear but like...not cartoonishly incapable of understanding what danger even is, and with the natural mindset of optimistic anarcho-socialists.

Gnomes I would simply dial down the absurdity a bit, not completely rewrite. Their inventions often seem to always blow up to outsiders because you remember the explosion of the prototype that maybe shouldn't have left the lab so early a lot more than you recall the finished product that is only ever seen in the presence of gnomes. I do worry that these tinker gnomes make it hard to believe in a world that hasn't progressed past RL medieval tech, so I'd play up the idea that crossbows do work better here than in RL, because of gnomish advancements in winches and other mechanical advantage mechanisms, and maybe have one or two technologies that aren't combat related that are spreading across the continent, having been iterated in gnomish hands for a couple generations. Maybe the most expensive wagons in Krynn have fancy leaf spring suspension, idk.

Gully Dwarves would be the biggest change, because they would be presented as a group of dwarves that were outcast and subjugated, barred from forming schools or creating true cities, a great crime in Dwarven history. Modern gully dwarves have found education on their own, built secret cities between the very walls of their cousin's dwellings, and in the last century have worked with hill dwarfs to create towns upon the surface of the mountains, and have attained some measure of wealth by acting as intermediaries between their cousins and non-dwarfs as their cousins struggled to come out of isolation. Now there is an uneasy tension between them and their mountain cousins as they use economic pressure to force their kin to recognise their rightful place in dwarven society. Also maybe I'd move some of them into forests in the foothills of the mountains, and treat them almost like forest gnomes? Like, mostly they're dwarves but they can talk to small critters and hide really well? A more dextrous, clever, forest dwarf would be a new niche for dwarves and would make sense for a group of them who sought out a place where they could thrive as things got even worse within the mountain home during the period of deep isolation, and such a society would be sensible as the ones who found ways back and forth in and out of the mountain in secret over the years, and found themselves in a position to write the terms of dwarven reentry into the broader world.

Oh and the dragonlances are all lost or missing, and one of the supernatural gifts a PC can take up is a silver arm and the skills and training of a smith. Another would be being favored by Paladine or his daughter (the platinum haired younger knight god I talked about), filling a role similar to Goldmoon.

Speaking of Goldmoon, that whole culture would be subject to revision by Plains Native creators.
I really like this a lot, and it also won't alienate existing fans of the novels by invalidating all that came before nor will it be a dull remake of the original modules.

All of which means this is unfortunately not what WoTC will do.

(To everyone wanting to eliminate kender, tinker gnomes, et al, why do you want Dragonlance at all if you don't like some of the core aspects? That's like demanding a Dark Sun with no psionics or sorcerer-kings)
 


The "death throes" abilities of the classic draconians is problematic, from a player-character perspective.

I was thinking . . . what if those "death throes" aren't really an integral part of draconian physiology, but rather a curse laid upon the first generations birthed by Takhisis's minions. Later generations of draconians are unlikely to manifest this curse, and perhaps even 1st generation draconians aren't guaranteed to carry the curse.

PC draconions . . . no curse, no death throes.
Yes, if you advanced the timeline it would a simple matter to say the draconians of Teyr (which are effectively the playable ones in 3E) no longer had this happen.
 

I really like this a lot, and it also won't alienate existing fans of the novels by invalidating all that came before nor will it be a dull remake of the original modules.

All of which means this is unfortunately not what WoTC will do.

(To everyone wanting to eliminate kender, tinker gnomes, et al, why do you want Dragonlance at all if you don't like some of the core aspects? That's like demanding a Dark Sun with no psionics or sorcerer-kings)
You don't think it's a bit odd to ask why people want to change the setting in the same post as you basically endorse the creation of what would basically be a completely new setting?
 

Draconians had weird things that happened when they died: turning to stone, exploding, etc. If they're playable and keep those powers (which, IIRC, are a lot of what makes draconians different than dragonborn), then that means that if they die, they basically can't be brought back to life until you get wish, because every other spell that brings back the dead needs a body.

Are draconians going to be popular if you are at risk of permadeath? It's hard to die in 5e, but there's still that raise dead safety cushion.

If you take the death throes away, what would you add to make them distinguishable from dragonborn?
Do we need to have them be distinguishable from dragonborn? They're dragonborn with a different name, wings, and a unique history tied to the settings. That'd be very attractive to WoTC enabling people to play all the core races of the PHB. (Kender likewise with halflings).
 

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