D&D 4E What would you want to see in 4e?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I don't like being expected to run four or five encounters in a single game day. That's often longer than a game session, and it's hard to come up with that many relevant and exciting encounters in one day.

I like hos, in Iron Heroes, this is less of a problem. (The problem seems to be spellcasters. It's pretty hard to cut a wizard's spell slots in half if you want to run only two encounters per day.)

It's not a problem in D20 Modern at all.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Kapture!

I really like the idea of making non-human (monster) races predictable and stackable, but what happens when you want a really wacky monster like a tiny 1 HD creature that has an aura of pulsing death around it? Or a sprite. Then you have to shim your expectations of level advancements with goony artificial concepts like ECL and CR and etc again.

Not really...read below.

I like Mustrum's idea of more specific magic items. I'm tempted to use it. I'm not sure how that would reduce reliance on magic items in the game. Currently the reliance on magic items comes from the challenge rating system. What would fix that is not another edition, it's a body of literature on how differing circumstances effect CR's (and really, how to build monsters). For instance: In low magic games, creatures with magic DR and two CR's higher. In games without specific pluses to magic items, every encounter above third level is two levels higher. And etc. Really, a couple of dragon articles. Right now the information is spread all over the place. I suspect that's just an issue that will evolve over time. CR/EL was a really interesting addition to DND, and I bet there's a decade worth of tweaking involved in getting it right. That's, what, five years to go?

Actually the whole CR/EL/ECL/Situational Modifier/High or Low Magic question was solved years ago, you will find the solution in the Grim Tales book by Bad Axe Games.

Who really cares what a Barbarian is called?

Conan...and Bobby.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Likewise, why are Hengyoki and Warforged more core than Bards, Druid, Monks, Ninjas, Paladins? How big do you want the core book to be?

Well, for my part I listed all those as optional. Put them in the DMG, if need be.

 

[Kanegrundar]

Well, for my part I listed all those as optional. Put them in the DMG, if need be.

Same here. Other than a few expanded races in the PHB (sub-races for elves and dwarves make more sense than any weirder races, though I wouldn't mind the inclusion of shifters and goliaths in the PHB) most of my suggestions would fit in better in the DMG under optional rules (Armor as DR, Class Defense bonuses, and so forth).

Kane

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Something I've used in the past for magic items: creation or improvement by use. In other words, the warrior who slaughters thousands of drow with his battleaxe over the years creates a Drowbane Battleaxe, or holy warrior who constantly crits successfully with her blade eventually has a Keen or Vorpal weapon. Similarly, a character who routinely survives off-hand attacks that were critical threats (but not crits) might have a shield with extra defensive capabilities.

Think about it- there are countless legends where magic items (usually weapons) were created by the heroes who used them or by simple little things. Swords and spears get "tempered" in the blood of mighty opponents, picking up a magical charge...an iron-shod staff that delivers the coup de grace on a powerful flame elemental absorbs part of its energies, becoming a Flaming Burst Staff.

I find it creates a nifty way for players to make their weapons more unique and form personal attachments to them.

 

[A'koss]

If 4e were to move halfway between 3e and Iron Heroes I would be quite happy with it.

1. Move away from X per day powers and X per day encounters. While I'd be leary of introducing Tokens to D&D, the idea of balancing the classes against the encounter is a desirable goal.
2. Reduce the growing disparities between the classes (AC, HPs, Saves, Combat Ability, etc.), particularly if you plan to introduce rules for characters beyond 20th level.
3. While magic is an important facet of D&D, I would like to see it's dependency greatly reduced. Class-based Defense bonuses a la IH is a must IMO.
4. I would reduce power of higher level spells, eliminating any one roll wonders (Save or Die/Nerf effects against challenging opponents). I wouldn't mind seeing combat spells geared more like Holy Word where the effects are greater against weaker opponents. Save or Die against a target 10 levels lower than yourself is okay in my book, but not against someone who is the same level or greater.
5. I'd like to see more combat rolls in spellcasting to hit targets or maximize their effect.
6. High level play in general - there is too much to keep track of and high level combat is too quick and deadly. The game goes from frequent wounds and healing to frequent death and resurrection. This is not a good game philosophy IMO. It should be harder to die, but harder to come back. Reserve Points, or something similar, would be a great idea to fold into core D&D.
7. I love the Feat Mastery and Stunt rules from IH. I think something along those lines would be a great addition to D&D. However, I'd simplify the Skill system, reducing the number of the skills overall (eg. Stealth, instead of MS/HiS). Skill & Combat challenges would be another rule I'd love to incorporate even in a limited form.
8. I also love many of the class design elements in IH - 1d4+control die HPs, new unique class abilities every X levels & no specific roles need to be filled in the party!!
9. I'd fold in SR into the Saving Throw scheme and re-work the benefits of making your save so that if you exceed the min required to make it by say... 10 or more, you gain additional benefits.
10. I'd keep HPs, AC (Defense), Saving Throws & the D20 but I'd rework DR somehow, someway...

Cheers!

 

[Kapture]

Hey there Kapture!
Actually the whole CR/EL/ECL/Situational Modifier/High or Low Magic question was solved years ago, you will find the solution in the Grim Tales book by Bad Axe Games.
QUOTE]

Hey man.

I've heard Grim Tales mentioned alot in the 4.0 conversations, it seems, for this very reason. I will have to pick it up.

Wait.... maybe Grim Tales is 4.0!

 

[Kapture]

9. I'd fold in SR into the Saving Throw scheme and re-work the benefits of making your save so that if you exceed the min required to make it by say... 10 or more, you gain additional benefits.


Cheers!

I'm not sure which is more onerous: situational save modifiers, or spell resistance. They're both an extra layer of record keeping.

 

[sinmissing]

What I find particularly interesting about this thread is that there are very few new or innovative ideas that aren't already present in any number of 3rd party products. It seems that there is a majority of folks here who want nothing more than their personal game to be made canon. Which, in my opinion, is no more desireable than vanilla D&D.

In the interest of contributing to this thread further; and being fully aware that this is my personal view and no more valid or desireable than anyone elses; I would like to see:

* Classes should never grant static class abilities. Every class should have access to a range of abilities throughout their career. Like no two fighters need be the same, because of feat selection, no two rogues, rangers, or clerics need be the same.
* The magic system from Thieves' World (with tweaks)
* MDT, Defense, Reputation
* Options which account for low magic/poor magic settings. ie. Reliance on magical equipment not a necessity, and how those characters would scale with the default setting.
* Remove the assumption that the typical character career spans 1 to 20 + Epic. This ties in with my previous requests.

Currently, I run a game where everyone begins at 5th level, and experience is gained at 1/10th the rate. This means that characters are going to be stuck at certain levels for a very long time. The maximum level of the campaign may get no higher than 9th or so, so I've adjusted my classes so that they are templates providing a number of choices for players.

Several of my ideas, could be easily accomodated now, if the Open Gaming Foundation or other 3rd party designed a method to measure Combat Grittiness, Magic, Monsters etc. If you want Low Magic, Gritty Combat, you should be able to identify those products readily. What High Magic, Over the Top Action, then look for products with those ratings.

But my number one request above everything else; even if there never will be a 4e; would be a true Dungeon Master's Guide that contains nuts and bolts GURPS like detail of how to design races, feats, classes, monsters, spells, or just about everything that has been pregenerated by the authors.

 

[A'koss]

I'm not sure which is more onerous: situational save modifiers, or spell resistance. They're both an extra layer of record keeping.

Record keeping yes, but by folding SR into Saving Throws it's one less die roll at the table.