D&D 4E What would you want to see in 4E?

[Doug McCrae]

For 3e fans I don't see any drawback. All your 3e books will still exist and what's more you'll be able to buy the ones you don't own cheap. Wizards were going to run out of things to make into feats and PrCs pretty soon anyway. 4e will be an additional option. Something to try or mine for ideas. What's the downside?

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I started to make a list of stuff I'd like to see in 4E, but it's basically describing something similar to BFRPG or C&C, and I've already got those. I'll be curious to see what direction they take 4E, but WotC's direction and my direction diverged some time ago, so I don't feel at all anxious about it.

 

[boredgremlin]

I for one dont want a 4e. For numerous reasons including....

I would miss out on a complete warrior 3,4,5 etc and so on. All the complete books were so useful i absolutely need 3 or 4 editions of each and if wizards stops rehashing the same ideas over and in increasingly obscure and contradictory ways how will i ever get my fix of mindless and useless crunch?

I spent years learning how to deal with whining players needing the latest uber broken munchkin combination character created with bits from 4 different supplemental books that were clearly never thought through with regards to each other. Without that all the time i spent learning how to say NO will be wasted... a travesty.

There are soooo many more ways to use Dragons. All the books they have covering every inch of dragon lore in exhausting and useless detail would be wasted if they started from scratch.

And most importantly, think of the poor designers. Over the last few years have they been able to coast and put out mindless crap. They have become accostomed to a certain lifestyle. One which requires not even a modicum of creativity in any of the sourcebooks and only a dribble of it in adventures. Most of said dribble coming from the effort of converting 1st and 2nd adventures to 3x. What if they had to put thier thinking caps back and actually create something new? Thats just not fair to them to expect that sort of effort.


With all that said though, i agree with most of the ideas here being good ones. Theres a few i agree with the most though

1. getting rid of the sacred cow of arcane/divine magic. I never could figure out why the priest of a god of fire couldnt throw a fireball, or an accolyte of the god of storms use a shocking grasp. On the flip side, why cant a necromancer turn undead? Or raise the dead in a good way? All goofy distinctions that strectch credulity if you think about them.

2. More modular characters. Pick either warrior, rogue or wizard and then customize away as you go up in level. No need for all the extra classes when you can just pick extra abilities as you level.

And my own.

3. Release computer programs with the books that include NPC makers, Random Item creators, random map makers and so forth so that a busy-with-life DM and pop onto his computer and quickly do all the number crunching that makes DMing so much work.

3a. Include update discs with each extra book. So that when i buy monster manual XXX whatever i can pop in the disc included with the book and update all my programs with the crunchy bits in the book. Like a DM genie with supported updates.

 

[Lanefan]

Most of the suggestions so far seem to want to move the game even further from its roots. So, to counter a few:

- have a reasonable selection of core classes (maybe 10-20) and get rid of prestige classes entirely;
- ban or severely restrict multiclassing (the idea here is to use the rules to emphasize that each character is an essential *part* of the team but can't do everything);
- empasize character personality over numbers - take as much of the "character build" concept out as possible;
- decide whether it's a medieval-based fantasy game or not, and if it is then play up the stereotypes (and if it isn't then decide what it *is*);
- eliminate most buffs, and make things that change base stats much less common overall;
- streamline and combine skills;
- cut the number of feats drastically and make some staple ones straight class abilities instead;
- bring back something like 1e's matrix table for turning undead, as the current system doesn't seem to work very well;
- make Illusionist and Necromancer their own classes and do away with other arcane schools of magic (while you're at it, make illusions affect touch again so an Illusionist can actually do something other than support);
- keep the divne-arcane split;
- back off on balance a bit...accept the fact that not all characters are created equal and that a well-played character with a memorable personality contributes far more to the game than a maxed-out automaton, regardless of its numbers;
- look to other games and editions for ideas that worked...1e's system shock mechanic, for example, or Star Wars' wound-vitality hit points system...and adopt them;
- have two side-by-side rule sets for level advancement - a fast-advance (for short campaigns of 1-2 years) and a slow-advance (for long campaigns of 5+ years);
- assume your target audience has some intelligence and don't need things to be dumbed down - we *are* capable of doing basic math (well, usually), geometry, physics, etc.;
- put more restrictions in the rules rather than less, with notes for if a DM wants to remove them, as it is far easier for a DM to remove a restriction than to impose one;
- do *not* go metric;
- keep the game playable without need to go anywhere near a computer;
- use % tables more often, they allow far more flexibility than a simple d20;
- give the game back the odd sense of humour it had in 1e...the ultra-basic artwork, the flowery Gygaxian turns of phrase, and so on.

How's that for a start?

Lanefan

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Mostly an easier way of generating high-level NPCs. That takes up far too much time...

 

[Aus_Snow]

[sblock]Credits
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Player's Handbook Design
------------------------
Mike Mearls

Player's Handbook D&D Design Team
----------------------------------
Steve Kenson, Mike Mearls[, . . .]

Editor
------
John Cooper[, . . .][/sblock]
* Core (and 'expanded core') rules still O-G-C, in da S-R-D.
* Covers with [good] fantasy art on them

Something like that. It might need some refining, but I like the look of it so far.

 

[FireLance]

I won't detail a laundry list of wants. I'll just set out a few design principles which I hope 4e will adhere to:

1. Modularity/varying degrees of complexity: have a very simple basic game with options for increased complexity that can be easily integrated or ignored. For example, there could be a separate chapter for advanced combat which you can use if you want AOOs or grappling, or a chapter on alignment (and associated spells and effects) if you want to include that into your game.

2. Fewer, but more significant abilities: At least for the basic game, to help keep it simple. Inexperienced players, in particular, would find it easier to keep a small number of abilities in mind, and would enjoy the feeling of contributing significantly in an encounter. Classes or races with a larger number of less powerful abilities could be retained as options.

3. Refreshing abilities mostly on a per encounter basis: This helps inexperienced players learn about their characters' abilities as it encourages them to use their abilities instead of hoarding them. It also helps reduce encounter variability for the DM, as he can expect the PCs to start each encounter at roughly the same level of resources. A per encounter refresh system can also be easily converted to a per day refresh system, which can be retained as an option.

4. Limit the amount of in-game calculation: one way to do this is to limit the number of effects that a spellcaster can maintain, or to set a cap on the number of spells that a character can benefit from. This ties in nicely with (2) and (3) above - a low-level cleric might only be able to maintain two effects at a time (say, bless and shield of faith), but he will be able to use them in every encounter.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Mostly an easier way of generating high-level NPCs. That takes up far too much time...

The Saga skill system helps with this big time.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

The Saga skill system helps with this big time.

Amen it does.

Saga is made of win and good.

 

[Storyteller01]

The OGL maintained. Won't happen, but it's nice to dream.