D&D 5E Whatever "lore" is, it isn't "rules."

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You don't find this a touch ironic - that you are asserting that, because you care about D&D(TM) and it's canon - as you conceive of it - everyone should, and should use it as the starting point for all discussion?

I have stated my opinion clearly now. I am tired of arguing with someone who thinks the term "D&D" means everything and anything so as that my West End Star Wars game can be called D&D. I'm bowing out. However, I look forward to playing a Half-dragon Vulcan Jedi/Wizard of High Sorcery who hales from Sharn in your Greyhawk game...
 

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I have stated my opinion clearly now. I am tired of arguing with someone who thinks the term "D&D" means everything and anything so as that my West End Star Wars game can be called D&D. I'm bowing out. However, I look forward to playing a Half-dragon Vulcan Jedi/Wizard of High Sorcery who hales from Sharn in your Greyhawk game...

It seems like you are less focused on D&D, than you are Canon. Perhaps you should be saying Canon D&D, instead of just D&D. IMO, "D&D" is whatever you make it, however that may stand against "Canon". An important distinction that I think has been ignored, or at least skipped over in this discussion.

EDIT: I should note, I am not trying to tell you what you care about, as that would be a stupid thing to do. I am just offering an outside perspective on the matter.
 

There's nothing inside the cover that says that Dungeon is official D&D material.

[quote[I certainly noticed the change in 3E Dragon from its classic days. Instead of having the flavour of a fan magazine (ideas for rules variants or new rules, commentary on playing the game, etc) it had the flavour of a house organ: the articles read like supplements to WotC's game. 4e continued this trend.
I agree that it felt a bit closer to a company product, but I never took anything in Dragon to be official in 3e. Anything in there had to be okayed by me and I scrutinized it like I did a 3rd party product.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, you're right, it's not "inside" the cover. It's ON the cover. Right there in the top left.

dragon-magazine-335-1-728.jpg


Happy now.
 

Nonsense.

The core of GH canon is found in a a few pages at the start of the Folio boooklet: the timeline, the migration maps, the description of the history of the world including the Invoked Devastation and the Rain of Colourless Fire, the Sueloise and Oeridian migrations, etc.

The names of rulers weren't provided until the boxed set split the original booklet into two books and added those details (Glossography, p 17).

The names of streets in the City of GH weren't provided until the CoGH boxed set, which some people regard as silly and non-canonical in any event.

Canon didn't freeze with the original booklet.

This is why I asked, upthread, what view you would take of someone who started with Grey Box FR, added details to the blank spots, and then stuck to those details either in ignorance or in disregard of subsequent publications. You said that would still count as a FR game.

What I said was that it was unlikely in the extreme that there would be enough conflict to alter things enough not to be FR. I didn't say it wasn't possible, or that it would without a doubt always be FR.

So when I give Hardby catacombs, how is that a disregard of canon? When I decide, as described above, that Slerotin's mummy has been interred there, how is that a disregard of canon? And if in another campaign I decide that Hardby has no catacombs, how is that a disregard of canon either? Why do I have to fill in the blanks the same way every campaign?

I didn't say it would be a disregard of canon, and in fact have said the opposite, so I'm puzzled why you keep saying these things. They don't make sense coming from someone who bothered to read what I have written.

Well, WotC thinks you can have Purple Dragon Knights in Krynn. You just have to relabel them Knights of Solamnia! So on this occasion I'll trust WotC over you.

The mechanics for Purple Dragon knights are different from Knights of Solomnia, so WotC thinks no such thing.

As far as the moons are concerned, everyone knows that they are called Celene (the handmaiden) and Luna. The presence of a third, invisible black moon doesn't contradict anything. The presence of wizards whose power is tied to the phases of the moon doesn't contradict anything. The folio glossography actually has a rather lengthy discussion (relative to its overall size) of astronomical phenomena; and there are at least two GH deities of stellar/astronomical phenomena (Celestian and Pholtus). So how do you possibly take it that it is stated, or implied, that Oerth contains no orders of moon-dependant mages?

Canon establishes two known moons. Two visible moons. Nothing says there can't be a third one, small and orbiting rapidly like a modern-day satellite about the earth.

If it is unknown, then it powers no one and nothing. It's unknown! If it powers wizards and is invisible, then it's known, not unknown, and canon established the known moons.

I find it very odd that someone who says that making the Celestial Emperor just a minor major domo in his own back yard is not sort of change to OA canon is now protesting that adding a compltely plausible astronmical phenomeon to Oerth is a wild change to the established canon!

Canon establishes that he is limited to the east only.

Well obviously they WoHS in my GH campaign aren't tied to Krynn moons. They're tied to GH moons. And in my GH game, also fairly obviously, magic can come from moons. Why shouldn't it? Nothing says it can't, and the discussion of astronomy in the Glossography suggests that it can!

Wizards of High Sorcery cannot be tied to any moons other than the Krynn moons and still be Wizards of High Sorcery. That's what the lore established them as. Alter the lore and you no longer have Wizards of High Sorcery. You have some other kind of similar, but different wizard. Now, you might argue that those similar, but different wizards who get power from Greyhawk moons can also call themselves Wizards of High Sorcery. That's true, but that's very poor DMing in my opinion. Anyone who knows about Wizards of High Sorcery is going to think of Krynn. Causing confusion by naming another set of wizards the same thing is not a good thing.

Thanks for telling me what I can and can't do. Fortunately for me I worked these things out over 30 years ago, even without the benefit of your advice and permission!

How about you quote me telling you what you can't do, or where I tried to "give you permission" to do anything. Your argument is in blatant bad faith.
 



I have stated my opinion clearly now. I am tired of arguing with someone who thinks the term "D&D" means everything and anything so as that my West End Star Wars game can be called D&D. I'm bowing out. However, I look forward to playing a Half-dragon Vulcan Jedi/Wizard of High Sorcery who hales from Sharn in your Greyhawk game...

Why not? If you can sell me on the idea, what's the problem? So long as the character fits with the campaign and the tone, I'd welcome the character.

Far better than beating those poor players about the head and ears with the canon bat and telling them that their creativity is just not welcome here.
 

They tried that. It was called AD&D 2nd Edition.

Yep, and from a design standpoint it worked well.

From a business standpoint, maybe not as much, but there was so many releases of varying quality along with other significant business issues, so it's difficult to blame it specifically on that.
 

Just looked inside of a 3e Dungeon Magazine and it says that the opinions inside are not necessarily that of WotC. That's not official.

That has nothing to do with whether it's official or not.

That's a legal disclaimer for when they publish an article that says "you can play a demon character" and some Mom takes them to court saying "they said junior could be a demon."
 

Wait, is this true? Or is Chris Perkins just running his mouth again?

Not exactly. In the appendix of Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide it gives suggestions of how to use the new class options in other worlds.

"The Purple Dragon Knight is an ideal match for the Knights of Solamnia, specifically a Knight of the Rose. As leaders of their order, Knights of the Rose are expected to provide wisdom, inspiration, and guidance to knights of all situations.

That's it.
 

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