What's a good high-charisma build? Or, can Bards be useful?

[bensei]

FrankTrollman posted:
3.5 nerfed Perform, so you'll have to choose whether you play an instrument (which can be done while casting spells), or sing (which can be done while fighting).

I am not sure whether you can play an instrument while casting spells (does anyone have a reference for this), but you clearly cannot cast spells while using any bardic music effect. So there is not much use in this fact (unless hiding the spellcasting in the musical performance).

Also, I do not see any statement in the SRD which prevents a bard from playing an instrument and fighting at once, although this is quite hard to imagine for most instruments and weapons used by a two-handed character.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm, clr/spellsinger (Kalamar PG) is nice too... spellcasting in fullplatemail.
If you wanna get weird, take the Shugenja, you'd have two CHA-based spellcasters

 

[Plane Sailing]

Speaking of Bard... has anyone been able to put one to good use, in game?

-z

Read Piratecats storyhour!

 

[Darklone]

For a low level build, use Montes variant bard with damage spells and Cha 18... with two spell notes per round, he'll make any sorcerer commit suicide (he has 8 spellnotes per day!).

 

[Thanee]

For a less combat-oriented character, a Rogue/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster could also work well.

For a combat-oriented Arcane Trickster, the Wizard is probably the better choice, but then there is not much Cha involved!

Bye
Thanee

 

[two]

Monte's bard

For a low level build, use Montes variant bard with damage spells and Cha 18... with two spell notes per round, he'll make any sorcerer commit suicide (he has 8 spellnotes per day!).

Monte's Bard is almost impossible not to "break," meaning making it more powerful as a direct damage spell caster than a SRD wizard or sorcerer, yet with better BAB, hit points, etc. etc.

Throw in some of those Eldritch metamagic feat things (applicable to notes/chords/melodies) and it's completely over the top.

With almost no effort you can get roughly double the spell casting power of a sorcerer (mostly using ranged touch attack spells). All you have to do is buff up your perform skill as high as possible (it's used with metamagic feats). But anyway --

As per Frank's comments about the bard being ok at low levels, suckier and high, he's clearly on drugs, or never played a 3.5 bard or something. As usual, don't take him very seriously. I don't think even HE takes himself seriously.

 

[Henry]

Speaking of Bard... has anyone been able to put one to good use, in game?

Bards are the most useful when your DM recognizes their abilities and let's them shine in social situations (assuming your bard rightly focused there). A Bard with good Diplomacy, Gather Info, Bluff, and Intimidate can be tremendously useful in a group. Furthermore, enhancing their abilities with their spells (charm person, suggestion, hold person, etc.) can in some cases let a Bard end a major challenge or combat before it really begins!

As an unusual Bard, a player in our Forgotten Realms game plays a Half-Orc Barbarian/Bard. Last game, the entire group was pitted against an Orc Raiding Party (of FIFTY orcs!) The Bard rode around on horseback, using a spiked chain and his ride skill, singing all the while, while laying about left and right slaying orcs and befitting the scattered party. In many cases, saving throws and to-hits were made by one point that day, proving the bard's usefulness to no end. At one point, he was responsible for holding one small flank all by himself!

 

[The Souljourner]

I'm starting a bard in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. I had an elven archer before, but he died, so I decided I'd try out a bard. He'll be 9th level, so I guess we'll see if higher levels are crappy for bards. Personally, I can't imagine anyone thinking so... the best thing about the bard - inspire courage - now gets better as he levels. Giving +2, 3, or 4 to all your allies hit and damage rolls is amazing! And if you take lingering song from Song and Silence, you just have to do it once and it'll last 10 rounds. That'll last longer than combat does, most of the time.

The Bard spell list is pretty decent, as long as you're not looking for direct damage spells. Some buffs, a ton of enchantments... tasha's hideous laughter is almost like old school hold person.

I plan on being a melee combat guy - longsword and buckler. I recommend having decent strength if you can manage it... 10 strength means you're useless in combat, and that's one of the things you're "paying for" with the 3/4 BAB. That's the only bad thing about bards... you kinda need every stat. Wisdom and Constitution being the "drop" stats... though not really.

-The Souljourner

 

[Darklone]

As an unusual Bard, a player in our Forgotten Realms game plays a Half-Orc Barbarian/Bard. Last game, the entire group was pitted against an Orc Raiding Party (of FIFTY orcs!) The Bard rode around on horseback, using a spiked chain and his ride skill, singing all the while, while laying about left and right slaying orcs and befitting the scattered party. In many cases, saving throws and to-hits were made by one point that day, proving the bard's usefulness to no end. At one point, he was responsible for holding one small flank all by himself!

Barbarian/Bards are not at all unusual and I've seen them in action (and played similar builds) more than once...

Bbn1/Bard human for example: Skald with big axe. Some nice attribute scores (Str 16, Dex 14, Con 15, Cha 15) allowed him to stay at least on par with the fighter of the group till level 6. And one reason why the fighter surpassed him was that the bards song affected both of them.

Actually, for this kind of builds, the 3.0 Bard with Magic Weapon and medium armour proficiency was much better.

 

[Gnome Berzerker]

A Paladin2/Sorcerer8/Eldritch Knight 10 is a decent build. No, you'll never touch the wizard in spellcasting ability, but you'll make every saving throw you need to, and you might just outlive the guy!

Barbarian/Bard is another fun choice (go GNOME!).

Bard 20 is underrated, and can be tons of fun as well.

I like Bard10/Arcane Archer 10, but it's not the most powerful build out there.

Clerics with the right two elemental domains can turn/rebuke almost anything they come across. It's really a sick, under-chosen choice if you ask me. It's personal choice (and whether of not you can find a deity with the matching alignment or not), whether or not you add 2 levels of Paladin to this build. Again, making a saving throw could easily mean the difference between surviving, or rolling up a new character.