D&D 5E What's on your psionics wishlist for 5E?

[dream66_]

I never knew Chekov was psychic.

Good on him. Tewepathic Powvers engaged, keptin.

I honestly keep forgetting he had a job before Babylon 5,

 

[steeldragons]

I'm workin' on stuff...and have something like this for 5e-style sub-classes.

Psychic Disciplines
Discipline of Telepathy (The Telepath or "Mind-Witch")
You use telepathic talents at half [rounded up. minimum 1] their point cost.
You are proficient with the Insight skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, double your proficiency bonus on rolls involving Insight.

@3rd: Elusive Thoughts: as a reaction, you can shield your mind from psychic intrusion, canceling any attempt to read your thoughts or otherwise effect your mind or emotions. On a successful Intelligence check, you can discern where the attempted intrusion is originating from if you don't already know.
@7th: Guarded Mind: you have resistance to psychic damage.
@11th: Expanding Psyche: when you use a telepathic power that targets only one creature, you can have it target a second creature at no additional PP cost.
@14th: Improved Guarded Mind: when you make a successful save against an attack that does psychic damage, you take no damage.

Discipline of Telekinesis (The Telekinetic or "Kineticist")
You use telekinetic talents at half [rounded up. minimum 1] their point cost.
Bonus “Cantrip": When you choose this discipline at 3rd level, you gain an additional telekinetic talent with 0 PP cost.

@3rd: Kinetic Attunement: Pick an energy type: electricity, fire, [pure mental] force, cold/ice. When you use your telekinetic powers, they are manifested (fluffed) through this energy type. Damage taken by any attack is of this energy type and can be effected, resisted or blocked by spells and abilities which specify that damage type. You gain resistance to the energy type chosen. Once chosen, this energy type can not be changed.
@7th: Sculpt Energy: functions as the Evoker feature Sculpt Spell, effecting/avoiding 1 [presumably ally] person per PP spent.
@11th: Empowered Mind: as an action, when you use a telekinetic power that has a weight limit, you can double the weight effected at no additional PP cost.
@14th: Telekinetic Shell: you have a low-grade telekinetic “second skin" that grants you resistance to slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage.

Discipline of Clairsentience (The Clairvoyant or "Seer")
You use clairvoyant talents at half [rounded up. minimum 1] their point cost.
You are proficient with the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, double your proficiency bonus on rolls involving Perception.

@3rd: The Sight: You can use your action to see invisibility or gaze into the Ethereal Plane, in your line of sight, within 60‘.
@7th: Remote Viewing: when you use a clairsentient power that perceives things at a distance, the range is doubled at no additional PP cost.
@11th: Portent, as the Diviner feature.
@14th: Guarded Mind: you have resistance to psychic damage.

 

[Eirikrautha]

Wow... This post seems incredibly short sighted. I'm not about to defend psionics with you however. Psionics is going to happen in 5e, Mearls has already stated this. It's just a matter of when. This thread is to express what we would like to see.

And I'm telling you what I'd like to see and why, in my opinion, the prevailing wisdom on psionics is "short-sighted." The fact is that the "source" of the power is flavor, and therefore is irrelevant to the mechanical operation of powers in the game (even more so in "rulings over rules" 5e). If D&D is going to have psionics and have it be anything other than reskinned magic, the powers will need to be both mechanically different and have a different purpose for the characters. Class-defining powers already exist. It's either called class abilities or it's called magic. Adding psionics on top gains us nothing (other than a name change).

Oh, and tying it to feats also removes the lucky-roll club aspect of 1e. Make psionics worth a feat and you've pretty much done what is needed.

 

[Spykes]

The fact is that the "source" of the power is flavor, and therefore is irrelevant to the mechanical operation of powers in the game (even more so in "rulings over rules" 5e). If D&D is going to have psionics and have it be anything other than reskinned magic, the powers will need to be both mechanically different and have a different purpose for the characters. Class-defining powers already exist. It's either called class abilities or it's called magic. Adding psionics on top gains us nothing (other than a name change).

OK, I think I understand what you mean now and I agree with that. That is why I was so adamant about including Psionics in the initial offering of the players Handbook because I think that there are certain class defining abilities such as telekinesis, teleportation, etc... that should have been used to define and set apart psionics so that they could shine as a unique thing. Now I still think that's possible, but it's going to be much more difficult to achieve. The only way to really achieve it now without it looking like what you've described is to really embrace the augmentation concept and put the bulk of the development time into making each and every power unique by allowing the character to alter it's behavior. I think the key will be to define Sciences, Devotions, Disciplines or whatever label, that offer powers that may be duplicates of spells or at least close to them. These would be the classic Psionic defining abilities. Then the real work will be in defining the endless permutations of the powers available through augmentation.

 

[dwayne]

Have the powers require different points and do not give them a level but have it based off your character level and proficiency bonus +8, the powers would be few and tied to a science that is your primary focus and your secondary to a lesser. The powers are very versatile and powerful but you can never have them all and are limited by the choices you make. You could have your focus in telepathy and your lesser in phycometabolics you could never attain the higher powers of the other sciences. Were as soul knife would have a preset of powers to choose from that would be culled from all of the powers but none of the higher ones same goes for psychic warrior.

 

[Curmudjinn]

I could see it being totally feat-based, as a psychic-light variant. As mentioned above, I would also be okay with a total revamping of the class, starting it off as a precog/telepath/telekinetic base class. Subclasses would let you specialize in a Discipline or Path(a focused direction of your psychic ability), but please god remove the 3.5 disciplines. Too many, too clunky and unnecessary.

Starting with at-willl or persistent powers is the way to go, imo.

 

[Vael]

While I don't doubt there will be Psionic feats, after all, Magic Initiate exists, I don't really want to see the return of feat chains.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Feats could pick up much of that slack. Want to be a dedicated psionic character? Sounds good, you'll just be giving up higher ability scores in exchange for several psionic feats ("I've learned ego whip, pyrokinesis, and Tower of Iron Will with this feat!").

Because that means you cant have psionics until 4th level, then just get crappy ones. You get your next power at 8th level. Sorry, if it doesn't cut it for arcane magic, it doesn't cut it for psionics. Its fine to represent wild talents, but woefully inadequate for worlds where psionics are major parts of the cultures and fluff and which make the core focus of your character from level 1 onward.

I guess I don't understand why a subclass or several wouldn't give that alternative flavor without all the labor-intensive fobs of a whole new class.

A few new wizard schools (Seers, Telepaths, Kineticists, Nomads, Egoists, Creatives) with some new features support the "dedicated mind-mage" archetype. Psychic warriors are just another fighter variant. Monks could become soulknives. Sorcerers would make good wilders ("I just have this power, I don't know what to do with it!") Heck, we could even dust off the Lurk for rogues and the Ardent for bards and the Divine Mind for Paladins (though I'm not sure any of those are missed very much). There's not much in the existing suite of psionics that doesn't fit snugly into subclass territory.

That's just adding more crap on the wizard, which gets too much versatility and toys as it stands. Not to mention it royally destroys the way the Dark Sun campaign is written, which is based around tangible differences between psionics and magic (ie, they do different things and more important, differently. Psionics is much more limited, magic is vast but destroys the world). You may as well make clerics "healing wizards", rogues "skill fighters", and do away with every class except fighter and wizard. If rangers, paladins and bards, which are just pre-fab multiclass combos, deserve their own class, psions deserve it much more.

 

[Eirikrautha]

The only way to really achieve it now without it looking like what you've described is to really embrace the augmentation concept and put the bulk of the development time into making each and every power unique by allowing the character to alter it's behavior. I think the key will be to define Sciences, Devotions, Disciplines or whatever label, that offer powers that may be duplicates of spells or at least close to them. These would be the classic Psionic defining abilities. Then the real work will be in defining the endless permutations of the powers available through augmentation.

That's metamagic/warlock enhancement. We've already got that. I'm obviously not explaining myself well (that's what happens when you try to type from an Ipad... I'll switch over to my PC so this doesn't take an hour to type), so let me try to show you why I think this "class" approach can't work unless done in a very specific way.

Let's start with "Why magic?" Why even include magic in the game. Because it allows narrative effects that normal human behavior can't accomplish. It's not just "opening a door in a different way," it's "open a door you CAN'T without magic." Spells are in the game because they affect the narrative of the game in ways a sword can't. Can I kill stuff with a sword? Yes. Can I persuade with words? Yes. Can I make someone an automaton with words? No, I need a "spell." Can I mend broken bones instantly with a skill? Nope, need spells. Can I fly without wings? Nope, spell. I can kill something with a sword. Can I kill several things 20 feet apart at once with my sword? Can I render them motionless or make them fall asleep with my sword? Need spells for that.

So magic adds to the game, not because it is a different way of doing the same things, but because it does something totally different. Now tell me what psionics does that magic can't. Nothing (in fact, psionics is more limited in effect than magic). It has no narrative purpose. Telling me that psionics will do such-and-such that magic does, but in a different way, and I'll tell you to reflavor the sorcerer. Psionics needs to do what magic CAN'T do. And that's a steep hill to climb.

If WotC really wanted to do a full on psionic ruleset with classes, then they need to do something like the hacking/net portion of Shadowrun. Psionics needs to be its own "space." In 1e, it took place at a faster rate than combat (not that I'm suggesting that) and was different depending on whether the target was also psionic. Unless you had a very weak target (low Int and Wis), it would only do minor things to a non-psionic (stun, mild insanity, etc.). So it had its own space to work in that magic didn't influence. This was a reason why the astral and ethereal planes were invented (partially), to give psionics a home battleground different than normal space.

That's why a psionics "class" is a waste of time if all psionics does is affect the normal world like a spell does. It has to have its own narrative power, which requires its own narrative space. Without this, you're just reskinning magic. Which I would hope that WotC would understand... but I'm not hopeful.

 

[Eirikrautha]

Not to mention it royally destroys the way the Dark Sun campaign is written, which is based around tangible differences between psionics and magic (ie, they do different things and more important, differently. Psionics is much more limited, magic is vast but destroys the world). You may as well make clerics "healing wizards", rogues "skill fighters", and do away with every class except fighter and wizard. If rangers, paladins and bards, which are just pre-fab multiclass combos, deserve their own class, psions deserve it much more.

A cleric is a "healing" wizard (or sorcerer, more closely) that wears armor. The divine/arcane divide is a mechanical invention designed to encourage build diversity and flavor (If the wizard could heal, why play a cleric? If the cleric can cast all wizard spells, why play a wizard?). Where they separate is not in their magic, but in their class abilities and restrictions.

The "different" way that psionics does things in Dark Sun is just flavor. You could do it mechanically with "spell-slots" or spell-based power points and it would be exactly the same. Which is what I don't want.

As for 4th level being too late, that's usually the fourth gaming session (my players usually get each of the first 3 levels in a single 4 hour session or less). You could always give a starting power(s) to savants (Int 15+) if you wanted it from the beginning.

My way might wreck Dark Sun (I didn't play it that much), but I'd rather have a system that is worthwhile over a system that preserves a legacy setting (have you seen how messed up Pathfinder's mechanics have become because it tries so hard to preserve 3.5 compatibility?)...