What's Stopping Me from Gaining Multiple Wishes at Level 12?

Loincloth of Armour said:
There's using things in a game and abusing things in a game. Obviously our opinions on the matter differ.

Since you've specifically called out Rope Trick here, I'm interested in your opinion. Given that the spell creates an extradimensional space capable of holding multiple people for hours at a time while being nigh-unassailable, to what uses do you think this is meant to be put if not resting for the night without worrying about wandering monsters?
 

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I think you might actually get away with doing it once, depends how your DM wants to play it. A second time and.....I can imagine the Grand Vizier taking a personal interest in sorting out this annoying itch and the mind boggles when thinking of the consequences. His power is awesome and far reaching and I think you would be enslaved forever in the City of Brass as chief chiropodist for his esteemed magnificent's toenails :lol:
 

Tiberius said:
Since you've specifically called out Rope Trick here, I'm interested in your opinion. Given that the spell creates an extradimensional space capable of holding multiple people for hours at a time while being nigh-unassailable, to what uses do you think this is meant to be put if not resting for the night without worrying about wandering monsters?

I can count the times I (or the people I play with, or the DM) have used rope trick on one hand.

1) When fleeing from an overpowering encounter, we used a scroll of rope trick to hide when there was no other good alternative. We recognize its use as a cool hidey-hole when all else seems lost.

2) When the party was busting down the BBEG lair, he needed a diabolical-evil-back-up-plan (tm) and decided to hide the McGuffin. He cast rope trick, sent his minion up there with the McGuffin, and stayed to fight us. We beat him, searched his chambers but was unable to find what was hiden right in front of us. We left and hours later the minion came down with the McGuffin to continue his lord's evil schemes.

3) We had to deal with an army on the march. We used scrying and such to figure out the army's path and speed, and found a place where it was likely they would camp for the night. We used a scroll of rope trick to hide in the middle of the strong point, and the army encamped around us. Hours later, when most of the army was asleep we dropped down into the middle of the enemy force and preceeded to wreak havoc as only PCs can do.

4) Assassins attempted to kill a party member. They were forced to flee, and the party was magic heavy and planned to use spells to track them. The assassins retreated to a rope trick (which being extra-dimensional the DM later said defeated the on-the-same-plane spells used). They used their hours time in there to apply disguises, and then when the rope trick ended, they walked by the paranoid PCs who had true sight up, looking for magical disguises.

I do not deny the idea behind the spell was to create a place where the party can rest safely. I see it as a wonderful last-resort, "Oh my gods, we're all going to die!" spell, or a nice "We need a creative way not to be seen," spell.

Maybe some DMs train players to seek unassaliable shelters because othewise they get beaten into the ground every time they attempt to sleep. Fortunately I have never been in a game like that, either as a player or a DM. Provided the group takes reasonable precautions (watches, alarm spells, fortifying positions, guard animals, etc), then I find the nightime encountes, both for weal and woe, enhance the gaming experience without unneccessarily inconvincing the players.

When used sparingly, to protect the party from total death, I have no problem with it. When it becomes synonomous with, "we make camp," (or, "we find an inn for the night,") then I really do wonder about the adventuring spirit of said casters.

And he's not looking to break the game.

When in his first post, he said:

After 10 minutes, and with no save, he must follow my given instructions (i.e. "grant me three wishes").

and

Honestly, the only down side I can see to this plan is that I'm going to have to be really creative to think of uses for all these wishes! I can do this at least once a day, indefinitely. Now whenever our artificer says "I'll spend the two weeks that we're resting in making these magic items", I'll just say: "I'll wish for the following 42 magic items".


Forgive me if I have doubts. :lol:
 
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Loincloth of Armour said:
When used sparingly, to protect the party from total death, I have no problem with it. When it becomes synonomous with, "we make camp," (or, "we find an inn for the night,") then I really do wonder about the adventuring spirit of said casters.

To be honest, we don't use it every night. Usu only when camping dangerous locations when we need the rest and know there are violent enemies nearby. Although, with two warforged in the group, and 8 undead minions, its not like we lack for capable guardians while we're resting.

Ozmar the Prepared
 

hanniball said:
From the SRD:


Emphasis mine.

At best, you'll get one wish out of the Efreet as multiple wishes would be multiple services. With a group of Efreets all bound you still must request a wish from each one individually. Ergo, you are not allowed to increase your ability scores by more than +1 as Wish reads:



Either way...just my 2 cp

Not true. Look closely at the efreet's description... they don't get wish 3/day (grant another's wish), they can 1/day grant three wishes. You could bankroll thirty wishes and max out your inherent bonuses in one go if you wanted.
 

shilsen said:
Well, bottling them wouldn't work very well if they could use their Wishes on themselves, could it?

Obviously, the bottle would have to be well constructed. Or the efreet is honor bound in some way they would not consider lightly ignoring.
 

Jürgen Hubert said:
I thought the whole point of oxen was that they are (a) male and (b) castrated? :D
Details. So instead, the Efreeti turns the poor guy into a bull, then finishes the task of turning him into an Ox.


Oh, idea:
It doesn't say how the wishes are granted, or even that the efreeti needs be present.
Efreeti: You want three wishes? Here, have them.

The efreeti, having fulfilled his task, vanishes.

Player makes a good, well-worded wish. Nothing happens. Repeatedly.

Later, he says something. Isn't even prefaced with the words "I wish". Maybe it's "I'd like to see you try that" (when taunting someone) or "May Odin Strike Me Dead" (interrupting the PC before he gets to the "if I'm lying"). Or anything else he says that could be interperted as a desire of some kind and can be twisted around to hurt the PC.

He's granted the things he wishes.... just not the things he wanted to wish, nor in the way he wanted to wish them. As a malevolent force is lurking around, waiting to choose exactly which ones to grant that look like they will cause the most trouble.

In other words, three very, very cursed wishes.
 
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Ozmar said:
I was doing a little research, and I noticed that Efreeti can cast three wishes a day for nongenies (such as, say, my Dread Necromancer).

Now, I have a stronghold, and have built a permanent binding circle, and I have a clerical cohort to cast magic circles and dimensional anchors.

So, at no further cost to myself, I shall cast planar binding and conjure up a 10-HD efreeti. Sooner or later, one will fail its Will save (and actually, it has to roll a 12 to succeed) and be bound. Efreeti don't have SR, and with his +2 Cha, he can't beat the DC to escape my trap (at least DC 26, I think more due to the permanent circle).

So he's bound. Now normally I can bargain with him (costs gold) or force him to listen to me (an opposed Cha check with a chance that he'll break free), but I am thinking I'll just avoid the hassle and cast geas on him. After 10 minutes, and with no save, he must follow my given instructions (i.e. "grant me three wishes").

1) You have to successfully dimension anchor him - your cohort might miss after all. That just reduces the frequency of trapped efreeti though. So you can still call Efreetil.

2) You begin casting Geas. The efreeti turns invisible. You can no longer see him to complete the targeting. I hope you had see invisible cast before hand.

3) The efreeti creates a permenant image in the circle you can no longer see him to target the geas on him. I hope you had True Seeing or similar cast before hand.

4) The efreeti is so hot he counts as a fire source, he uses pyrotechnics on himself t create smoke that breaks line of sight. True seeing doesn't help against "for and the like" so you lose line of sight and geas fails.

5) The efreeti creates a wall of fire around itself inside the binding circle. You can no longer see it, no line of effect. no spell.

6) The efreeti uses permenant illusion to stop itself from seeing or hearring you preventing you from issuing commands (like the geas) unless you pass into the circle with it, at which point you are vulnerable, and the time taken to issue your geas command would be timed by me, and that's how many rounds it gets to squish you.

7) Assuming you do land geas on him... The efreeti chooses to take 3D6 damage each day until it dies.

8) assuming you try to compel the efreeti using the planar binding, the referee just says that "Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to" and demanding that he cast wish is an unreasonable demand.


Ozmar said:
Honestly, the only down side I can see to this plan is that I'm going to have to be really creative to think of uses for all these wishes! I can do this at least once a day, indefinitely. Now whenever our artificer says "I'll spend the two weeks that we're resting in making these magic items", I'll just say: "I'll wish for the following 42 magic items".

Ozmarius the Wishmaster

You can attempt this once a day you mean. There is no guarentee of success.

The first Efreeti to escape spreads the word about you to others. then another and another. Pretty soon, you discover that the efreeti contact a "friendly" mage.

The efreeti pay this friendly mage 1 wish a year. In return he summons them to the prime material plane and wishes the 3 wishes that they want (they provide the words, he says them, they complete the wish). Ever single day thereafter you have at least 3 hostile wishes cast against you.
 

Veril said:
1) You have to successfully dimension anchor him - your cohort might miss after all. That just reduces the frequency of trapped efreeti though. So you can still call Efreeti.

No, I think you can use the dim anchor on the circle in advance, so there's no issue with this.

Veril said:
2) You begin casting Geas. The efreeti turns invisible. You can no longer see him to complete the targeting. I hope you had see invisible cast before hand.

3) The efreeti creates a permenant image in the circle you can no longer see him to target the geas on him. I hope you had True Seeing or similar cast before hand.

Hmmm... good point. Thanks! I'll make sure to prep for these kinds of tactics. Maybe I can bind him, and then just leave. And then cast the geas from behind a screen or a hidden location so that he doesn't see it coming.

Veril said:
7) Assuming you do land geas on him... The efreeti chooses to take 3D6 damage each day until it dies.

Now this can't work. My reading of the geas tells me that the target has no choice but to obey the geas. Its only if he's prevented from doing so (perhaps by being chained up, or under a compelling domination or something) that he begins to suffer the consequences.

Veril said:
8) assuming you try to compel the efreeti using the planar binding, the referee just says that "Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to" and demanding that he cast wish is an unreasonable demand.

Yes, DM fiat can undo even the best laid plans.

Veril said:
The first Efreeti to escape spreads the word about you to others. then another and another. Pretty soon, you discover that the efreeti contact a "friendly" mage.

The efreeti pay this friendly mage 1 wish a year. In return he summons them to the prime material plane and wishes the 3 wishes that they want (they provide the words, he says them, they complete the wish). Ever single day thereafter you have at least 3 hostile wishes cast against you.

After all this discussion, I am thinking that I want to get on the roll of "friendly" mages. I'll summon an efreeti, and sign up for this plan. Next time they need to exact revenge on some evil, genie-binding necromancer, they can come to me and I'll wish for whatever revenge they want, in exchange for a wish of my own, of course. ;)

Ozmar the Businessmage
 

I was all with Virgil's suggestions #1-#6, but I think he's headed in the wrong direction with #7 and up.

I think after failing in suggestions #1-#6, your average Efreet decides to go ahead an match wits with this pesky mortal spellcaster. He agrees to grant the three wishes, but plans on twisting the intent of the wishes as much as possible. He may even try to set traps for the player by suggesting some things to wish for, urging the player to wish for greater and greater things. I'd throw in some classic 'fine print', such as the Efreet bluffing that he's so impressed by the spellcaster that he offers a fourth wish (which according to the fine print in the contract invalidates all previous wishes and releases the efreet if the caster tries to take it.) And so forth. The wise wisher will attempt diplomacy to soften the Efreets attitude from hostile before making the wishes.

Assuming the spell caster succeeds, word gets out of this pesky mortal. Initially Efreets treat this as a failing of the summoned Efreet - he got bested by a mere mortal. If the spellcaster is not softening the summoned Efreets attitude though, he's in for a world of hurt in the long run. As more and more Efreets swear vengeance on him, it will eventually reach the point that the efreets will be in position to start fighting back. The lords of the City of Brass have great influence over fire. I don't like suggestion #8, but I do think that they'll attempt the following if the wish engine is getting out of hand:

1) Any summoned fire elemental arrives hostile and out of control, and attacks the offending caster in preference to all other targets.
2) Any gate that the caster opens to elemental fire causes something hostile to step through. Any time the caster gets near an existing open gate, hostile forces in the service of the genie arrive.
3) Any entry into elemental fire plane by the caster is met with open hostility and hunting parties.
4) In the longer run, spells that the player casts with the fire descriptor have an increased chance of spell failure (say +5%) and a small chance of summoning in hostile elementals or fire plane natives (CR = spell level) whether they fail or not (again 5%).
5) In the longer run, ordinary fires become hostile to the spell caster every time he is within 30' of one. They will attempt to leap up to thier diameter toward burnables or the caster and will preferably consume things of value to the caster. Creatures one size category smaller than the fire may be gated in to attack the caster (so a campfire or fireplace sized fire might cough up tiny fire elementals or fire bats to run amok). Alternately, when fire is necessary to the caster, it will go out. Fires protecting against cold will refuse to burn. Torches and candles will go out just when the character most needs light, etc.
6) In the longer run yet, the Efreet will trade favors with their Baatezu allies and the character may find himself the target of various assassins, diabolic con-artists, temptresses, and cultists all determined to arrange the characters downfall/eternal punishment.
7) Efreet lords will begin efforts to discover the caster's true name, so that they can summon him to serve them! If thier efforts are not thwarted, they will put a geas on the caster which forces him into some demeaning, repetitive and probably impossible task.

If none of this works, then as a DM I see it as all to the good. The PC has created not only a memorable character, but one of the more important and reknowned characters in the campaign world.

But seriously, any DM worth his salt should be able to stop this plan in its tracks when it gets to the "I wish..." stage.
 

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