What's Stopping Me from Gaining Multiple Wishes at Level 12?

[Loincloth of Armour]

Indeed. Well, why bother playing a flawed character with a disturbed background of personal troubles. Why bother going on dangerous adventures which places your character in greater danger and inconvenience, when he could make a fortune casting cure light wounds safely at home?

Because this is a game about adventure?

Playing a flawed character with a disturbed background and personal troubles doing adventurous things is fun.

Playing a flawed character with a distrubed background and personal troubles casting cure light wounds at home is boring. (And too much like real life.)

Playing a flawed character with a distrubed background and personal troubles who uses the letter of the rules to break the spirit of the game is also boring.

BTW - I like that genie's responses. I would be perfectly fine with it, and it would probably prompt my character to try again, only this time he'd be more careful with his wishes. And he might look into a silence spell after he makes the wishes so he doesn't have to listen to the genie's arrogant and condescending comments.

And to which I would have the genie answer all your questions verbally (mixed in with the insults), thus with the silence spell you miss out on the answers.

Honestly, if you have fun doing this and your DM allows it, all the more power for you. However, you're attempting to get something for nothing and without risk, using the letter of the rules to break the spirit of an adventure game.

Nothing's stopping you from hiring guards to clear out dungeons for you. Nothing's stopping you from using summoned monsters to lead your way into dungeons to spring traps and foil ambushes. Nothing's stopping you from retreating into a rope trick to sleep every night. Nothing's stopping you from using scry-buff-teleport.

And nothing's stopping me from snorting at such measures. Some call taking everything the rules allow, "Playing intelligently." I think of it as a lot more boring than having your rogue down to 3hp and praying he can make his Ref save as the pit trap srings open beneath him while attempting to outrun that bugbear he awoke with a 1 on his move silently check.

The excitment of the game for me from the risk of failure and the knowledge that success was earned in a hard fought way.

 

[hanniball]

So he's bound. Now normally I can bargain with him (costs gold) or force him to listen to me (an opposed Cha check with a chance that he'll break free), but I am thinking I'll just avoid the hassle and cast geas on him. After 10 minutes, and with no save, he must follow my given instructions (i.e. "grant me three wishes").

From the SRD:

Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell’s range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom.

Emphasis mine.

At best, you'll get one wish out of the Efreet as multiple wishes would be multiple services. With a group of Efreets all bound you still must request a wish from each one individually. Ergo, you are not allowed to increase your ability scores by more than +1 as Wish reads:

Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on).

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[Ozmar]

Honestly, if you have fun doing this and your DM allows it, all the more power for you. However, you're attempting to get something for nothing and without risk, using the letter of the rules to break the spirit of an adventure game.

Nothing's stopping you from hiring guards to clear out dungeons for you. Nothing's stopping you from using summoned monsters to lead your way into dungeons to spring traps and foil ambushes. Nothing's stopping you from retreating into a rope trick to sleep every night. Nothing's stopping you from using scry-buff-teleport.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think that's my intent. Its mostly a matter of having this really cool spell (planar binding) and my wanting to actually use it. I feel the same way about similar spells: magic jar, geas, bestow curse. They're very cool spells with lots of flavor and potential, but hard to really us as a player character. They're also, by the way, on my spell list. So I have these spells, and want to use them. It seems to me that, with planar binding, I ought to summon up some creates and bind them. And then get them to do something for me.

But which creatures? And do what? Well... I could bind a ghaele eladrin to protect me or something like that. Or I could bind a dwarven ancestor spirit to protect my dwarf friend's bedchambers. Or I could bind a demon to go seek out the location of a dragon's lair for me. Or I could bind a genie and force it to grant me wishes. These all seem to be in keeping with the spirit of the game. I am aware that there are (or can be) risks, and I'm fine with that. It makes it more fun, actually.

Oh, and using summoned monsters to spring traps and sleeping in a rope trick? Yeah, we do that all the time. Again, it seems like the thing to do. Our characters have these spells, so they want to use them.

I guess that's the type of game we're playing. *shrug* We like it.

Ozmar the Necromancer

 

[Boondoggle]

Don't forget that Vorik (the cohort) is wise and can probably foresee the problems with this strategy. His self-preservation instinct is just as well developed as Oz's, and he's much, much more rational. There are also the other party members, one of whom knows an incredible amount about the planes, who might also have the insight to see the pitfalls of this strategy, and the motivation to prevent such events from coming to fruition since it would inevitably impact them as well.

Of course, there is also the distinct possibility the rest of the party would just sit back and watch the self-inflicted carnage... Oz can prove to be quite amusing. I'm also waiting to see when Oz's impulsiveness will finally bring the wrath of the party... at least more than a very temporary stygian ray.

PS. If anyone hasn't caught on, I'm also in this campaign. I play a Psiforged egoist/anarchic initiate who's quickly becoming disintegrate happy, and is also very concerned about self-preservation (it's a common theme).

 

[Ozmar]

Don't forget that Vorik (the cohort) is wise and can probably foresee the problems with this strategy. His self-preservation instinct is just as well developed as Oz's, and he's much, much more rational. There are also the other party members, one of whom knows an incredible amount about the planes, who might also have the insight to see the pitfalls of this strategy, and the motivation to prevent such events from coming to fruition since it would inevitably impact them as well.

Of course, there is also the distinct possibility the rest of the party would just sit back and watch the self-inflicted carnage... Oz can prove to be quite amusing. I'm also waiting to see when Oz's impulsiveness will finally bring the wrath of the party... at least more than a very temporary stygian ray.

PS. If anyone hasn't caught on, I'm also in this campaign. I play a Psiforged egoist/anarchic initiate who's quickly becoming disintegrate happy, and is also very concerned about self-preservation (it's a common theme).

I wonder if I can wish for immunity to disintegration...

Ozmar the Paranoid

 

[Boondoggle]

Aww... a DC 23 fort save isn't that tough, is it?

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think that's my intent. Its mostly a matter of having this really cool spell (planar binding) and my wanting to actually use it. I feel the same way about similar spells: magic jar, geas, bestow curse. They're very cool spells with lots of flavor and potential, but hard to really us as a player character. They're also, by the way, on my spell list. So I have these spells, and want to use them. It seems to me that, with planar binding, I ought to summon up some creates and bind them. And then get them to do something for me.

I have no problems with that. You have the spells, use them. You want to try cool things with them, no problem. You want to stretch the rules, no problem.

You want to get unlimited 9th level spells without risk to yourself and without being 17th level? Big problem.

But which creatures? And do what? Well... I could bind a ghaele eladrin to protect me or something like that. Or I could bind a dwarven ancestor spirit to protect my dwarf friend's bedchambers. Or I could bind a demon to go seek out the location of a dragon's lair for me. Or I could bind a genie and force it to grant me wishes. These all seem to be in keeping with the spirit of the game. I am aware that there are (or can be) risks, and I'm fine with that. It makes it more fun, actually.

Except you're not using it for such things as, "guard me," (which may involve you having to fight as some get past your defender), or "find the dragon's lair" (which then requires you to actually go to the dragon's lair and do the heavy lifting of the adventure itself). Or a single task that allows the party to go do something else at the same time.

Instead you're saying, "I want to use several lower level spells to give me the ability to cast wish freely, with no XP penalty, three times a day, every day."

BUZZZ!!

Oh, and using summoned monsters to spring traps and sleeping in a rope trick? Yeah, we do that all the time. Again, it seems like the thing to do. Our characters have these spells, so they want to use them.

There's using things in a game and abusing things in a game. Obviously our opinions on the matter differ.

 

[Ozmar]

There's using things in a game and abusing things in a game. Obviously our opinions on the matter differ.

Evidently. Well, nusuth, no matter. I'll just go ahead and see what my DM's opinion on the matter is.

I wasn't (or am not) planning to get unlimited, no cost wishes. Initially, I was just curious about whether there was a rules-based reason that this wouldn't work. It seems clear that there is not. There are, of course, many metagame reasons that the DM should use story elements to control the situation before it gets out of hand, and a friendly player should avoid wrecking his game by stepping out of his group's implied boundaries on the issue. This is analagous to killing the king during his speech. Mechanically, there may be nothing preventing it. In-character, you might even have a compelling reason. Metagaming: this might be considered rude (depending on your group dynamics). So know your fellow gamers and play nice!

Ozmar the Friendly Player

 

[Boondoggle]

You want to get unlimited 9th level spells without risk to yourself and without being 17th level? Big problem.

He's not looking for ways to break the game, trust me. He is, however, looking for any rules that may prevent his character from doing this, regardless of the consequences. He said in his first post, he would expect exploiting this to bring a rather unplesant end. If there were no consequences for these actions, it would be abuse. However, the DM's job is to provide consequences for actions.

 

[Tiberius]

At best, you'll get one wish out of the Efreet as multiple wishes would be multiple services. With a group of Efreets all bound you still must request a wish from each one individually.

I dunno; I think you could specify the service as "Grant me three wishes." It's actually probably better to allow that, because otherwise people will start saying "One wish, huh? I wish for you to give to me an unused, previously unowned, and uncursed Tome of Clear Thought of maximum power.", thus giving themselves +5 inherent bonuses.

This is well within the safe bounds of the Wish spell ("Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item." [note the lack of a gp limit]), and doesn't have a cost that could be the basis of a refusal ("A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost.").