What's the secret behind D&D's ability to sustain long term play?

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Xombie Master said:
Dnd goes great lengths to allow all characters to be truly different.
Mechanically, yes. But how many of the myriad possible character builds are actually viable?

To me, 3.x appears to offer players a whole host of character options, but in reality, the number that are playable --and not the dreaded 'suboptimal'-- isn't all that large.

I guess in CoC there's not that much distinguishing you from other characters...
Personality? Motivation? Mannerisms? Cool hair?

(I'm not trying to be --overly-- snarky. But mechanics alone don't always make a good, or even uniquely memorable character. Earlier addition D&D characters were, by 3.x standards, awfully similiar. And yet, players managed to differentiate their characters, without a lot of help from the ruleset)

I guess players have to work harder to stand out in games like that.
Or they just have to play a character, rather than a cluster of abilities...
 

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Or they just have to play a character, rather than a cluster of abilities...
All I'm saying is DnD uses mechanics to facilitate individuality, other games I play use character motivation, mannerisms, etc. I prefer the latter but some players, many players that is, seem to prefer the former.

Don't get me wrong, if I had to choose to play only one game DnD wouldn't even be in the running. I prefer character over mechanics and so I like Call of Cthulhu and All Flesh, among others. I do enjoy DnD however.
 

One wonders why someone would choose this thread to initiate an edition war. Please don't. Even "in jest." Thank you.
 

Xombie Master said:
All I'm saying is DnD uses mechanics to facilitate individuality
Oh.

I read what you wrote as an endorsement of using mechanics as a replacement for more traditonal forms of characterization. Which isn't what you wrote.

Sorry. Long day at work and all.
 

Here's a concept first shared with me by noted Champions and D&D writer Aaron Allston:

D&D isn't a system. Its a setting.

Look at OD&D, 1E, 2E, and 3E.

Mechanically they are light years apart. But in terms of tone, in terms of exploring the unknown, delving into dungeons, mastering magic and several other key style components have remained unchanged.

Its a mix of Tolkien, Howard and Gygax into a blend that's solid gold.

So those of you saying its the setting and not the system are correct.

D&D is not a system, its a setting.

Chuck
 




I'm firmly planted in the "gaining levels" camp.

While a great DM and a great campaign can go a long way, it is the system (regardless of edition) and overarching storyline that draws me back.

I've immensely enjoyed many CRPGs that either used the D&D rules or were darn similar, and it is the levelling and character planning that always sucks me in.

By "overarching storyline", I mean the D&D canon. D&D has brand name appeal. Characters like Orcus, Tenser, Elminster, Ogremoch, Anthraxus, The Lady of Pain; creatures like illithids, yugoloths and drow; places like the Temple of Elemental Evil, the Underdark, and the Plane of Shadow...all these thinigs could be ported to other game systems, but they are inherently D&D. That's what keeps me going.

The D&D canon ranks right up there with Star Wars for familarity and immersement. Sure, other interesting worlds and systems are out there, and some may be fun, but there's no place like home. ;)
 

Henry said:
Here's the big question: Why did you, and so many of us, keep going back to D&D? If you can have the same thing (Interesting plot lines and good GM'ing) with Shadowrun, or Savage Worlds, or Vampire, why does D&D never fall by the wayside for good?

Someone once referred to D&D as the Rasputin of gaming, and it's pretty apt: It mesmerizes us, draws us back to pick it up, and it would take a heck of a lot to kill it. :)

1. The tremendous amount of support; most particularly the variety of the support. I think most campaigns die when the GM runs out of ideas and can't come up with something to save his life three, four weeks running. We all hit it at one point or another. With D&D, you can open up a module, get one off the net, use an old advenure and change things, or pick from hundreds of Dungeon adventures. If you don't find an adventure you like, look some more. It's out there. Kill Stuff/Take Loot, Romance, Adventuring for the common good, Mercenary ops, explorations, explorations, all there laid out for you so that you can get over that two week hump and continue on.

2. Even though it could be simpler, it has apparently has balance of simplicity and complexity that appeals to a lot of people. Some say 'people don't like learning that big chunk of rules' but we also see research that claims exactly the opposite: many of the early people attracted to D&D loved solving complex rules and gaining mastery over them. I personally think that most people that come into the hobby are brought in by others, so those people perpetuate that mindset among the vast majority of D&D players. It's not so complex that people give up in tears, but it's complex enough that people struggle with it a little and want to learn more.

I've watched a new player to our campaign go through this very set of phases. She's bright and eager to learn new stuff, she has her own PHB and now she's one of the first to dive in there and look up a spell description to find out if it works in this situation ("Can you Run when you're using Spider Climb?" "I'll see!"). She bought Arcana Unearthed when we did that and made sure she knew all the stuff about her race, her class, and her spell list even though she didn't study in depth the rest of the book. Now she's boning up on Mutants and Masterminds, and she started thinking of ways she could enhance her Possession ability and the like.

3. The class structure still make sense for making things simple. When we'd level M&M characters, we'd spend a long time thinking about what we wanted to get. When we level in D&D, we sometimes do that in the middle of an adventure and it just takes as long as a soda break to advance the PC and dive back into play. It simplifies a lot of decisions that the majority of players don't want to bother with or that would take up a lot of time.

4. It sounds a little silly but I think there is a something gained by D&D being the biggest RPG name; people like big names because it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling that there will always be adventures and support and new cool things to do.

5. Speaking of that: there's always something new and cool to do that you can't experience unless you have another character because of the class and race system. How many people have played all the races and classes even in the three core books? I haven't, not in 25 years. There's still something new in there for me to do. I certainly haven't even scratched the surface of prestige classes. There is always a new horizon and that is something that leads people. With, say, GURPS one character could quickly become very like another. SOmeone who started as a wizard type could spend points and somewhat later on down the road be as good a warrior as the warrior is if he wanted. Can't do that well in d20; the seperation of classes always means there is something the other guy can do that you can't, which means a tiny part of you if already thinking about doing that class.. in the next campaign.

6. It's something almost everyone can agree on. Many times, D&D has not been anyone's favorite RPG but it's been everyone's second or third choice. It's something most people can agree on to play. I love the Empire of the Petal Throne world. I have all the novels, even. But no-one else here does. I didn't even guy the new rules book because it would just sit on the shelf and rot like so many other things I have. D&D never sits there and rots, even when we go play something else we always come back to it.
 

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