What's the top level in your campaign world?

[Bullgrit]

It's apparent from some of the replies, that I didn't get my question across very well. I'm not asking if you put a limit on level advancement, I'm asking is there a point where the PCs will have leveled beyond the ability to find challenges that will give them xp to advance.

For instance, if you have 30th-level PCs, then you must have stuff that gives xp to 29th level PCs -- things in the CR 25-30+ range. Looking at the Monster Manual, there are very few natural/Material world things near CR 20. If you play straight from the MM, your PCs would probably reach the top and stop gaining in the low 20s.

Bullgrit
Total Bullgrit

 

[Treebore]

I've kind of done the World of Warcraft and Everquest thing. I have always had the super high level stuff take place in the underworld, on a distant continent, or its been the "ancient imprisoned evil" that breaks free. I have even used planar invasions.

Still, eventually, you have to do planar travel if you want to keep the game going and keep a decent level of "realism" to the home world.

 

[an_idol_mind]

It's apparent from some of the replies, that I didn't get my question across very well. I'm not asking if you put a limit on level advancement, I'm asking is there a point where the PCs will have leveled beyond the ability to find challenges that will give them xp to advance.

For instance, if you have 30th-level PCs, then you must have stuff that gives xp to 29th level PCs -- things in the CR 25-30+ range. Looking at the Monster Manual, there are very few natural/Material world things near CR 20. If you play straight from the MM, your PCs would probably reach the top and stop gaining in the low 20s.

That would be the case if XP was given out solely based on combat. Many DMs, myself included, gie out story awards, et cetera to help players advance. So there doesn't necessarily need to be a CR 25-30 creature; driving off a horde of goblins or getting through an ancient wizard's maze can give 30th level characters experience.

 

[Psion]

I've long felt as if the end of the campaign would be dictated more by the evolution of the characters and events rather than a level.

 

[DaveMage]

The last campaign that took us to level 26 has us visiting other planes around 15th level, IIRC. We didn't come back to the prime that often once we left.

No other 3E campaign I was in went past level 12, and we didn't go to any outer planes.

 

[Evilhalfling]

My world has a hard limit of level 20.
I have once DMed a party that reached 19th level. Monsters at that level were found in remote locals and forbidden demonic-dominated empires seperated from the rest of civilization.
There was a cluster of 15-18th level NPCs that were trying to end the world, the least of which were a pair of Imperial Govenors in the above empire. (the emperor was rumored to a)be a demon, 2) a god 3) non-existant figurehead created by Arcoloth lawyers. The Arcoloth lawyers were real enough.

At that point there were few bigger fish in the world - Demon Princes and Elemental Lords of Evil were involved but they got handwaved so that they could project cr20 avatars, and destroying one of these could cripple them for many centuries (which had happened in the worlds legends) but killing one was as impossible as killing a god.

There were a few legendary monsters such as a nightcrawler which was said to lurk gnawing the roots of a haunted forest (explored @lvl 8). It was rumored to have devorerd everyone who challanged it. The PCs went after it @lvl14, lost a PC to permant death and fled, never to return. If they had gone back and killed it after a few levels, they might have managed it. However it would have wrecked a society, which unknowingly had a dune-like dependance on the Crawler.

Dragons living in the depths of the ocean, and the farthest reaches of the world got involved in the lives of the PCs. The PCs killed a number of thier own rivals, partcipating in au unprovoked miltary coup of a country run by wizards (13th-15th).

They visted Plane of Earth, Para-elemental Magma border realm, the (etherial-like) Plane of Dreams, Plane of Shadow (alot), an Ice plane in the Abyss, and the celestial realm.

 

[Quartz]

You can always apply templates to pre-existing monsters. From the ELH, the Pseudonatural and Paragon templates are quick CR boosts without campaign-threatening side-effects.

 

[useridunavailable]

If you play straight from the MM, your PCs would probably reach the top and stop gaining in the low 20s.

That's not true. Great Wyrm Red Dragons are CR 26 and would yield experience until over 30th level. Granted, there probably aren't enough of them in most campaign worlds to get characters that high, but if you're only using the MM, then you're probably not using the ELH for character advancement, either, which means that it's not really possible for characters to advance beyond 20th level at all, at least not in any sense that is truly "Epic". By (presumably) only using the core rules, you're essentially answering your own question. According to core, it may even be against the rules to advance beyond 20th, and even if it's not, there are no experience award rules beyond that point. The experience table in the DMG doesn't follow a consistent formula (mostly because of the first few levels, IIRC), so any house rules for advancement would involve a divergence from the core material.

 

[T. Foster]

This isn't something I've ever specifically codified, but in general I'd say the cap is somewhere around level 10-12. By that point the PCs would be equivalent in power to both the most powerful NPCs (rulers of nations, etc.) and the most powerful monsters (giants, vampires, red dragons, etc.) found on the prime material plane. Much beyond that even if they're not traveling to other planes themselves their main opponents are likely to be extra-planar in origin (demons, godlings, titans, etc.). I'm not much interested in running a game where the PCs are above 14-15th level; at least not a traditional "kill things and take their stuff" XP-treadmill game -- I can at least potentially see a game that focused on politics, kingdom-building and such (i.e. like in the Classic D&D Companion Set) being some fun, but it would be so different from lower-level D&D as to feel like almost an entirely different game.

 

[kigmatzomat]

IMC much of the world was dominated by dragons a few centuries ago. Old, epic dragons whose first salvo was to slaughter the heroes of a long running war that had weakened most of the known world. A non-epic red dragon would be the minimum cap, which is CR26. It goes up from there based on how epic the dragons are.

Then you have some of the ancient things that predate dragons. The First Mourned are the very first undead and were part of a millenias-long war between certain deific beings (Life, Death, and Undeath). They are horrifically powerful and date back to the dawn of civilization. Actually the dawn of the precursor races that came from before the common humanoid races; the First Mourned think elves are whippersnappers and liked it better when the wold was Pangea. They generally stay in Twilight, a city that lies on the edge of the living realm and the afterlife, but they can be irritated into taking action.

The fey are another ancient race but IMC are not particularly involved in the affairs of mortals as they are somewhat in conflict with the current pantheon of gods. The King of the Fey is relatively young, being born after the Living-Death Wars of the First Mourned. Elder members of his court, including a redcap who may himself be the living incarnation of murder, took part in that war. The youngest fey squire, only a few hundred years old, is represented by a Leshay, CR28.

Above, or perhaps to the side, of the First Mourned are the Edicts. These are constructs that carry out some divine writ. They are infused with deific power and are almost unstoppable. A god whose portfolio covers the Edicts' writ can control them. Other gods have to exert themselves and can actually be injured by Edicts. Generally you try to distract them rather than fight them.
One, known as Oathbond, rendered judgement on an entire city in accordance with the local laws. Every broken contract, broken promise, childhood vow, etc. came home to roost. Pity the anyone who knowingly lied and said "cross my heart and hope to die" because they did, no matter how long ago.


Then there's the Screamstealer. No one's sure if it's an edict or the divine manifestation of entropy. All they know is that no magic works in its presence, no sounds can be made near it, fires grow cold, it can kill an archangel or fiendish duke with a touch, and that it leaves nothing but corpses and death in its wake. No destruction per se, just death. It was trapped last time by a group of archfiends and archangels who turned themselves into living anchors, just out of reach of the screamstealer. Good luck on getting a couple more of those guys to sacrifice themselves without a couple of gods to twist arms.

So, umm, I'm not sure what the highest non-plane-hopping CR is IMC. But I'm pretty sure I'm not going to reach it.