What's Up With The Monk?
- Thread starter mattcolville
- Start date
I don't really have much to add here, I just wanted to say that this is the long thread I have evermanaged to continue to contribute to.
But, while I am here, I will weigh in on the face that level 5 for wizards is BIG, level 6 for fighters because of the extra feat and the extra attack is also BIG.
g!
But, while I am here, I will weigh in on the face that level 5 for wizards is BIG, level 6 for fighters because of the extra feat and the extra attack is also BIG.
g!
Hakkenshi said:Ex-ACTLY. Now you're getting it
Evasion is IMO the most useful ability there is, with Uncanny Dodge not too far behind (Leap of the Clouds is cool too).
And dang you, dang you straight to heck for making the five-hundredth post!
Leap of the Clouds? Bah, I can get that with a wussy 1st level spell, or those boots we don't talk about any more.
As post number 500, all I can say is
Woooo...we HAVE gone far afield here.
I think the point I was originally trying to make is that the barbarian shouldn't get much better results than the monk, since eventually his tactic will sort of have to be "charge in, Rage, try n' kill stuff."
Not saying barbarians are bad. I think I'd play one before a fighter. It's just that having any character under those circumstances would be über-iffy, not just a monk. Hell, why not try with a bard?
I say the bard takes them all on
I think the point I was originally trying to make is that the barbarian shouldn't get much better results than the monk, since eventually his tactic will sort of have to be "charge in, Rage, try n' kill stuff."
Not saying barbarians are bad. I think I'd play one before a fighter. It's just that having any character under those circumstances would be über-iffy, not just a monk. Hell, why not try with a bard?
I say the bard takes them all on
I think it was a fighter, not a barbarian, and it's probably around page 5 or so.
And I said Leap of the Clouds was cool, not broken, not the best ability either. Just cool. No need for an item or a spell, but you have it. It's one of those abilities that you would never need to remove for balance purposes, because it does almost nothing except be its funky self. It's only really useful combined with a monk's high Spd, anyway.
And I said Leap of the Clouds was cool, not broken, not the best ability either. Just cool. No need for an item or a spell, but you have it. It's one of those abilities that you would never need to remove for balance purposes, because it does almost nothing except be its funky self. It's only really useful combined with a monk's high Spd, anyway.
The monk fight was last night, for any one still reading this line, and it was doozy. I nearly TPK the party by semi-bastardly ruling, so I don't know if this means the monk was a success or not. In the end, the monk was killed by 5th level monk/ftr in more or less single combat.
This is the map of the room the PCs fought the monk in. The black squares are impassible space. The X marks are for 30' pit traps, the "t" is for trap door in ceiling, which is how the monk got here ahead of the party, and the S and "ST AIR" both mean stairs, with the lower starirs being down and the upper stair being how the PCs enter.
For simple sake of reference, here again is the killing monk. Thanks again apsuman.
Now with all that set up, here is how the fight went. The room is dimmly lit, since I didn't want to deal with lighting. The monk is waiting at the south end of the center row, hiding. When the PCs enter and begin to spread, he uses the web. Most every one execpt for the wizard and bard make their save. Monk rolled middle of the order in inititive.
Without a fairly boring round by round description, here is what happened. Most of the people try to get out of the web, the monk/ftr to the left as you see the map, and the rogue to the right. The centaur tried to move straight up the middle. No one got out the first round, so the monk went in after the best target he could get, since the wizard was invisible. Wizard tries to break out and fails.
The monk on centaur section last a round or as the rogue and monk/ftr move around to flank: right throught the pit traps. The rogue makes his ref save to avoid the pit. The PC mnk/ftr falls. The NPC monk now moves back to deal with the rogue. The wizard manages to start casting spells at this point, starting with haste and then a magic missle, which obviously fizzels.
Now, here is the scary part. The wizard remembers that web is flamable. So he is go to try to hit the centaur with a fireball, hoping the centaur can soak it and the monk will fail his save. This would be like trying to fire a fireball through an arrow slit, right? So I told him he would have to hit. He made the ranged touch, so I rolled for the concealment of the web: 92. That isn't below 50, so the fireball goes off prematurely and decimates the party. Sentaur goes down, bard goes down, the party's riding dog goes down and the wizard dies outright. Was this too mean?
Anyway, there monk give the party the option to leave, and the PC mnk/ftr finally gets out of the pit. This starts the dual of the mnk/ftr and the monk. Ironic? The mnk/ftr is using a katana, whose d10 damage is beating the crap out of the d6. The level difference only gave the monk a few more hp on the PC. The monk tried spring attack-hide, but eventually had to go after the party, and he lost a good chunk of HP to a sneak attack. The PC mnk/ftr then got to finish him off.
As for resources used: most characters did not start the combat at full. In the course of this encounter, the bard lost 21 of 24 max hp, wiz lost 34 of 29 and died, centaur lost 26 of 32 max. The mnk/ftr, who started at max hp, lost 45 of 39 max hp. The riding dog lost 34 of 25 hp (yes, the dog is special) The only thing that the rogue used was 2 bullets. Overall, the party went through all the cure light potions they had left, which was 7 or 8.
Final result: the haste was not as much of an advantage as it could have been. The mobility was amazingly effective, as was the spring attack. I think that really killed the party was the misplaced fireball. If the miss chance had suceeded, only the centaure and monk would have been effected. The monk probably would have made the save, but it would have made the web a more or less non-issue.
Ok, that's enough. Tell me your thoughts, if you are still reading.
This is the map of the room the PCs fought the monk in. The black squares are impassible space. The X marks are for 30' pit traps, the "t" is for trap door in ceiling, which is how the monk got here ahead of the party, and the S and "ST AIR" both mean stairs, with the lower starirs being down and the upper stair being how the PCs enter.
For simple sake of reference, here again is the killing monk. Thanks again apsuman.
Now with all that set up, here is how the fight went. The room is dimmly lit, since I didn't want to deal with lighting. The monk is waiting at the south end of the center row, hiding. When the PCs enter and begin to spread, he uses the web. Most every one execpt for the wizard and bard make their save. Monk rolled middle of the order in inititive.
Without a fairly boring round by round description, here is what happened. Most of the people try to get out of the web, the monk/ftr to the left as you see the map, and the rogue to the right. The centaur tried to move straight up the middle. No one got out the first round, so the monk went in after the best target he could get, since the wizard was invisible. Wizard tries to break out and fails.
The monk on centaur section last a round or as the rogue and monk/ftr move around to flank: right throught the pit traps. The rogue makes his ref save to avoid the pit. The PC mnk/ftr falls. The NPC monk now moves back to deal with the rogue. The wizard manages to start casting spells at this point, starting with haste and then a magic missle, which obviously fizzels.
Now, here is the scary part. The wizard remembers that web is flamable. So he is go to try to hit the centaur with a fireball, hoping the centaur can soak it and the monk will fail his save. This would be like trying to fire a fireball through an arrow slit, right? So I told him he would have to hit. He made the ranged touch, so I rolled for the concealment of the web: 92. That isn't below 50, so the fireball goes off prematurely and decimates the party. Sentaur goes down, bard goes down, the party's riding dog goes down and the wizard dies outright. Was this too mean?
Anyway, there monk give the party the option to leave, and the PC mnk/ftr finally gets out of the pit. This starts the dual of the mnk/ftr and the monk. Ironic? The mnk/ftr is using a katana, whose d10 damage is beating the crap out of the d6. The level difference only gave the monk a few more hp on the PC. The monk tried spring attack-hide, but eventually had to go after the party, and he lost a good chunk of HP to a sneak attack. The PC mnk/ftr then got to finish him off.
As for resources used: most characters did not start the combat at full. In the course of this encounter, the bard lost 21 of 24 max hp, wiz lost 34 of 29 and died, centaur lost 26 of 32 max. The mnk/ftr, who started at max hp, lost 45 of 39 max hp. The riding dog lost 34 of 25 hp (yes, the dog is special) The only thing that the rogue used was 2 bullets. Overall, the party went through all the cure light potions they had left, which was 7 or 8.
Final result: the haste was not as much of an advantage as it could have been. The mobility was amazingly effective, as was the spring attack. I think that really killed the party was the misplaced fireball. If the miss chance had suceeded, only the centaure and monk would have been effected. The monk probably would have made the save, but it would have made the web a more or less non-issue.
Ok, that's enough. Tell me your thoughts, if you are still reading.
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