What's Up With The Monk?

[Hakkenshi]

Although that really begs the question of how the flaming fist monk can shake anyone's hand...

And Street Fighter-type combat is the LAST thing I would want for my monks. Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Chow Yun Fat (in CTHD), those are the fighters I would like a monk character to emulate.

 

[Hakkenshi]

Your ruling on the Fireball makes no sense to me. Concealment does not block line of effect. The wizard can normally just point in a direction and specify a range without making a roll. I believe you are confusing concealment with cover. The Web spell will not block the Fireball.

Considering that the Fireball spell projects a tiny bead of energy to the target to deliver the explosive payload, if it were to hit the strands of a Web spell, the bead would explode. In this case, cover is essentially provided by the spell. If the rules don't say so, LokiDR took the more logical route, so I don't see what's wrong with that.

Aiming a dime-sized bead through a roomful of gunk would be extremely hard, IMO.

From the SRD:

The character points a finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point (an early impact results in an early detonation). If the character attempts to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, the character must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

Nowhere does it state that only cover can be struck. Web does in fact create a "material body", so if a spellcaster missed due to concealment, he would hit the Web, thus triggering the spell. No big trouble interpreting that from the text of the spell...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

My mistake.

Web does indeed provide cover: The web provides one-quarter cover for every 5 feet of the substance between the character and an opponent—one-half cover for 10 feet of web, three-quarters for 15 feet, and total cover for 20 feet or more.

So some kind of ranged touch attack roll would appropriate.



Dumb wizard. Dumb me.

 

[LokiDR]

Well, throwing pits in to the equation made it even tougher on the party -- not really a fair test in any event. I mean, the terrain wasn't just special, it was uniquely bad for the party.

Your ruling was correct, but I probably would have warned the wizard about what was coming. You got him on a little rules trick. Not much of a test when the party implodes on itself .

Two people in the party started the fight invisible and they maxed out the buff spells. Also, the party had a centaur I said before it happened that I thought it would be about a fair fight, and I have to stand by that.

I do agree that the fireball is what really took the party down, so the numbers are inflated. I think the PCs action was a good idea (it was the first fireball he ever cast, BTW ). I am pretty sure that he knew that there was a chance of this backfiring, as it were

As for the terrain, there were 3 pits. The pits were not hard to find (DC 10) if the party had searched. The pits were not right in front of the door, and could easilly be jumped, if they were located or the PCs guessed after the first one. It wasn't every 5' there was a bladed pendulum. Honestly, do you think the terrain was that bad?

 

[LokiDR]

My mistake.

Web does indeed provide cover: The web provides one-quarter cover for every 5 feet of the substance between the character and an opponent—one-half cover for 10 feet of web, three-quarters for 15 feet, and total cover for 20 feet or more.

So some kind of ranged touch attack roll would appropriate.



Dumb wizard. Dumb me.

He made the ranged touch with flying colors. I just figured he would have to get through everything to land the fireball. If this was Enervation, that would be a ranged touch and concealment miss chance. I didn't say it was a perfect rulling, but I think it wasn't the worst. And he did have some warning.

 

[Alaric_Prympax]

(it was the first fireball he ever cast, BTW ). I am pretty sure that he knew that there was a chance of this backfiring, as it were

... and last too.

 

[LokiDR]

Funny thing is, he joined an invoker guild. Do you think he'll want his membership revoked?

 

[Hakkenshi]

Well, as long as the test was a success, I believe that means my job here is done.

 

[Gizzard]

OK, I hope I'm not just seeing what I expect to see (its a Monk related Rorsasch test!) but did the Monk really do anything here?

This starts the duel of the mnk/ftr and the monk. Ironic? The mnk/ftr is using a katana, whose d10 damage is beating the crap out of the d6. The level difference only gave the monk a few more hp on the PC. The monk tried spring attack-hide, but eventually had to go after the party, and he lost a good chunk of HP to a sneak attack. The PC mnk/ftr then got to finish him off.

It seems this is the first "real" thing that happens; does the Monk do any damage to the party before they Fireball themselves? How much of that damage at the end was done by the Monk, vs how much was done by the Pits or the Fireball?

Although, on the flip-side, how did a level 5 Mnk/Ftr outfight a Mnk7? The Mnk/Ftr should only swing once with a katana, while the Mnk7 should get three swings with the Flurry, right? I'd expect the Mnk7 to put out more damage toe-to-toe or to avoid the counterstrike altogther if he was Spring-Attacking.

I think its worth noting that the Mnk7 seemed to be hanging in there for a while, but as soon as he decides he has to "go after the party" he gets smashed.

But in any case, it sounds like a very exciting combat. (Certainly I expect the Centaur to have a little chat with the Wizard if the Wizard gets raised. "And you hoped I could suck up the damage from a Fireball? If you ever do anything like that again, you little two-legged freak....")

 

[Hakkenshi]

It seems this is the first "real" thing that happens; does the Monk do any damage to the party before they Fireball themselves? How much of that damage at the end was done by the Monk, vs how much was done by the Pits or the Fireball?

Does it matter? The ENCOUNTER was lethal for more than a character. In the end, you could put a lame Kobold in front a 20th-level party to bait into stepping into The Mother of All Traps which kills a couple of them; has the Kobold been effective? Hell, yes.

The monk NPC got the PCs into a position where they had to screw themselves over. That's pretty damn effective. Maybe too much

However, in retrospect I admit that I am perplexed that the mnk/ftr defeated the monk NPC. Gizzard's right on that one...