D&D 4E What's Wrong With 4e Simply Put
- Thread starter GVDammerung
- Start date
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Even the kill-stuff-and-take-its-loot MMORPGs have a HUGE focus on crafting, which gets relatively short shrift in D&D. Starting as far back as Ultima Online, professions and crafting have enough focus as to be the dominant focus for many players, and this continued into EQ1/EQ2, was the best thing about the otherwise excreable Horizons, was a big part of Vanguard and even is a major part of WoW.Mourn said:
I think most hardcore roleplayers would be shocked to see how much one's crafting skills make up the identity of an MMORPG player character. My dwarf hunter (ranger) would be a very different guy if he wasn't also an engineer who mines his own ore and makes his own blunderbusses.
And an earlier poster responded with a reason I think many changes are being made:Wolfspider said:
The issues with 3E are so fundamental in the system that it requires an overhauling to fix some of them. I.e. the dependence on magical items, the headache of higher level play (with monsters/PCs and their bajillion abilities), the power imbalance between the high level fighter vs high level wizard. 3e introduced crafting magical items (something that has been desired for a long time), but by and large, sacrificing Xp to craft items isn't popular. How do you overhaul the process of making magical items without tearing out all the magical items and feats to retool them, or even tearing out the magical classes to give them a mechanic allowing them to build magical items without XP loss?
It's a losing game if you continue to buy new systems for your old car (Transition, engine, etc); it's more cost effective and efficient, in the long run, to buy a new car. And you can still have the same Brand Loyalty of buying the same type of car (i.e. keeping it D&D).
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Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
It's not all about you.Wolfspider said:
It's about bringing in the next generation of gamers. Either gamers need to cut out the nachos and bring in a WHOLE lot more new players, or you need to accept that all the roleplaying companies (nWoD, anyone?) are going to have to make changes to bring in more new players.
WayneLigon
Adventurer
pawsplay said:
Maybe start with reading something written less than 40-50 years ago? (With the exception of Deed of Paksenarion and the Ethshar books, both of which grew out of roleplaying games). It's simply not 'bad fantasy' that has mages that can 'go all day'.
Problem with that reference is that WoD 2.0 sucks. Not mechanically mind you, but purely fluff wise - when they hit the reset button so they could go to a new edition, they added only Five Clans/Tribes/Bla, and the options were lame compared to the earlier clans/tribes.Whizbang Dustyboots said:
Side-track on the "Mages can go all day".
I have a question.
Why is it that a 2nd level spellcaster can cast the same amount of cantrips as a 20th level spellcaster?
The apprentice can cast "Sweep the floor" as many times as the archmage. Which just seems odd to me. Hell, their bonus spells don't even effect 0-level spells, so Casting Stat Mods don't even matter.
As A Class, wouldn't you... you know, get better at the weak stuff?
No one seems to complain that the fighter can swing his sword all day long. But I guess that's because there's no Vanican Fighting baggage to deal with.
I have a question.
Why is it that a 2nd level spellcaster can cast the same amount of cantrips as a 20th level spellcaster?
The apprentice can cast "Sweep the floor" as many times as the archmage. Which just seems odd to me. Hell, their bonus spells don't even effect 0-level spells, so Casting Stat Mods don't even matter.
As A Class, wouldn't you... you know, get better at the weak stuff?
No one seems to complain that the fighter can swing his sword all day long. But I guess that's because there's no Vanican Fighting baggage to deal with.
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