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Wheel of Time Full Trailer is out *No Spoilers Please*

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The fan response in the YouTube [Edit] comments has been overwhelmingly positive, which pleasantly surprised me for such a established series. The lone voices complaining about diversity (in 2021 🙄) are overwhelmed by a wave of optimism.

[Edit. I meant YouTube… Twitter is the cesspit it usually is!]
Beyond just eyerolling about 2021...the books have extensive cultural and ethnic diversity, and a colorblind approach to casting is entirely reasonable to the source material.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
Yeah. If Basil and Loial are present, but Elayne and Elaida are not, something is significantly different. The encounter with Elaida was pretty significant, too.

I'm still going to watch it. A guy I played D&D with for many years helped make this series happen, so even if I didn't want to watch it(and I do), I'd watch it in support.
The showrunner has hinted that Elayne is coming in Season 2, so it seems probable that they just shifted her introduction forwards to be closer to her broader narrative position.
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Making an exception in a thread that was asking people new to the series to weigh in with their opinion would be reasonable though, would it not?
If the title or OP has a clear "no spoilers" tag/request, sure. IMO such a thing can't just be implied and expect people to feel beholden to...an implication that it'd be reasonable to request a thing.
There's a rather large difference between an enormously popular movie/t.v/toy/game franchise that his been front and center in society for decades, and a book series that would only really be known to many people who like reading fantasy books, a good percentage of whom never finished the series. They aren't even close to being in the same league.
They're both old and well known. Hell, the star wars one is at least a surprise in the film. The Rand thing is...completely obvious. Anyone reading the books knew as soon as the character's relationship to the thing he eventually did the thing to was made clear...in the first book...knew that it was going to happen. It would literally be a gigantic "checkov's gun" writing problem if that didn't happen. This is like getting mad that I say that the good guys win in [given non-gritty fantasy property with a rep for classic good vs evil narrative]. (and also, I didn't spoil anything)
My take on this discussion.

1. Not really a spoiler to talk about the Vader reveal.
2. It is a spoiler to talk about reveals in the Wheel of Time.
3. If people have asked in a non-spoiler thread not to have Wheel of Time reveals spoiled, it's kinda jerkish to continue to spoil things. You can start a spoiler thread to discuss the series in more detail.
Okay, show where I have "continued to spoil things" about WoT in this thread.
Except that there's a new adaptation of it that is attempting to bring new people to the property, and this is a thread about that adaptation, where people are talking about how they've never read/finished the books but are interested in the show, and those same people are demonstrating they are upset at unmarked spoilers in this thread.
Okay. Have I spoiled any elements of the show at all in this thread? I mean I guess I took part in an exchance about what Rand's dad looks like, which "spoils" that the old guy is Rand's dad, but I'm not gonna take seriously any claim that this is an actual spoiler.
You are on the wrong side of this.
No, I'm not.
For my rebuttal to this ridiculously untenable stance, see my previous posts.


My rule of thumb is simple:

Willfully ignoring people’s desire not to be caused distress by your actions toward them is profoundly disrespectful. (As are all forms of social domination.) Because, you see, you’re taking away their agency in the matter. Defaulting to disrespect might be normal social behavior, but it sure isn’t right. Morally speaking.
It isn't a form of social domination. It's having a normal discussion about a topic where no request for no spoilers has been made. The OP had no "no spoilers" tag, and I've spoiled absolutely nothing about WoT in this thread. Garth did a spoiler on a major (but incredibly obvious and basically inevitable) plot development, and edited his post when asked to. Since that interaction, I've mentioned fewer details of the plot of the story than some of the people who have tried to chastise me for my stance in this thread! :ROFLMAO:

And you comment above on agency is such absolute rubbish I can't even meaningfully engage with it. What utter nonsense.
But if your stance is effectively, “People who don’t want old things spoiled should go out of their way to make sure they can’t see my posts,” I guess I’d have to recommend that they do just that.
Good thing it isn't.
Unfortunately, given the cavalierly casual penchant you’ve displayed for throwing spoilers around without warning, the damage is likely to be done before they know to do so.
Feel free to show what spoilers I've thrown around casually without warning.
The fan response in the YouTube [Edit] comments has been overwhelmingly positive, which pleasantly surprised me for such a established series. The lone voices complaining about diversity (in 2021 🙄) are overwhelmed by a wave of optimism.

[Edit. I meant YouTube… Twitter is the cesspit it usually is!]
Most of what I've seen on twitter has been positive, as well, but that might be that I'm not super deep in the fandom twitter space.
Yeah. If Basil and Loial are present, but Elayne and Elaida are not, something is significantly different. The encounter with Elaida was pretty significant, too.
Yeah it worries me a tiny bit, but I'm hopeful that it will be fine. The only thing I've disliked so far of what we've seen are the swords. They're generic katanas, instead of the unique and very distinctive blades of thebooks, which very much have a canon appearance, and have been forged in real life and gained author approval of the look.
Absolutely.

The best comment i saw was someone noting the irony of casting worst dad ever - Roose Bolton - as best dad ever, Tam Al’Thor!

😂
To be fair, as Dan Casey put it in his trailer breakdown, that guy hates telling his son anything! :LOL:
 



Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Absolutely.

The best comment i saw was someone noting the irony of casting worst dad ever - Roose Bolton - as best dad ever, Tam Al’Thor!

😂

Now, what I really want to know is who they're casting for the Forsaken...

1630687886066.png
 

Absolutely.

The best comment i saw was someone noting the irony of casting worst dad ever - Roose Bolton - as best dad ever, Tam Al’Thor!

I was loving the comments by people who said they had read the books, stating they were upset that the production team had obviously changed things since there was just too much female empowerment in the trailer. Yeah, that's an admission you definitely didn't read the books...
 


There is a cryptic reference from Rafe Judkins who when asked if the Forsaken would be seen in season one, replied “It depends how well you know the forsaken.” I think we could see some big names in those big (but cameo) roles.
Hmm... there are a couple of Forsaken who could pop up in disguise, especially with the added focus on the Aes Sedai...
 

Rune

Once A Fool
Feel free to show what spoilers I've thrown around casually without warning.

In this thread alone:
Yeah, you're never going to convince me to not talk about how Boromir dies in Fellowship or Ned Stark dies at the end of A Game of Thrones or any other time Sean Bean is definitely going to die on screen, just because some folks expect others to facilitate their desire to encounter a story every story they ever encounter as if it had never been told before.

doctorbadwolf said:
Yeah and like, people walking about of the theater to announce to the people waiting to go in that Han gets ganked by Kylo Ren who is Ben Solo, are dumb jerks that deserve to be punched.

doctorbadwolf said:
Why? Oh hey some of the main cast in Battlestar Gallactica are secretly robots, you guys! I mean come on.

I get that you believe this is no big deal for other people, but you don’t get to decide that on behalf other people! If you insist on doing so anyway, especially in a manner that can’t be preemptively mitigated, you are doing so at the expense of other people’s agency.

And if you still don’t recognize that, I’ll have to ask: how would a complete stranger possibly have a chance to prevent you from spoiling some piece of old media that hasn’t even come up in conversation?

Note that none of the things you spoiled in the excerpts above had come up in this conversation by the time you spoiled them.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
They're both old and well known. Hell, the star wars one is at least a surprise in the film. The Rand thing is...completely obvious. Anyone reading the books knew as soon as the character's relationship to the thing he eventually did the thing to was made clear...in the first book...knew that it was going to happen. It would literally be a gigantic "checkov's gun" writing problem if that didn't happen. This is like getting mad that I say that the good guys win in [given non-gritty fantasy property with a rep for classic good vs evil narrative]. (and also, I didn't spoil anything)
No. I know many gamers and book readers who have not read Wheel of Time. They know about it, but that's it. It isn't nearly as well known as Star Wars.
Okay, show where I have "continued to spoil things" about WoT in this thread.
I didn't say you did. @Gradine pointed out that it was jerkish behavior. I was simply stating that I agreed with him on this.
 


Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
No. I know many gamers and book readers who have not read Wheel of Time. They know about it, but that's it. It isn't nearly as well known as Star Wars.

I didn't say you did. @Gradine pointed out that it was jerkish behavior. I was simply stating that I agreed with him on this.

I'm someone who read like 7 of these books, and gave up... even I don't know how this series ends, and I've got to be 98% more familiar with the series than everyone with Amazon Prime.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I'm someone who read like 7 of these books, and gave up... even I don't know how this series ends, and I've got to be 98% more familiar with the series than everyone with Amazon Prime.
Well, books 12 and 13 sold a combined 12 million copies in North America between 2009-2013 (when the final 14th book came out), which Brandon Sanderson's agent apparently let slip. Certainly it's not on the level of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, but that's a sizeable fanbase that stuck through the whole series (the sales for the first book dwarf that, to be sure, the drop off is also pretty huge).

The audio books are also apparently extremely good, and a bestseller for Audible, so the Wheel of Time fanbase also probably has a hig Venn diagram overlap with people bought into Amazon's ecosystem.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Well, books 12 and 13 sold a combined 12 million copies in North America between 2009-2013 (when the final 14th book came out), which Brandon Sanderson's agent apparently let slip. Certainly it's not on the level of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, but that's a sizeable fanbase that stuck through the whole series (the sales for the first book dwarf that, to be sure, the drop off is also pretty huge).

The audio books are also apparently extremely good, and a bestseller for Audible, so the Wheel of Time fanbase also probably has a hig Venn diagram overlap with people bought into Amazon's ecosystem.

Amazon Prime has about 200 million subscribes. If the Venn diagram is more than 5%, I'd be pretty surprised.

Not dishing the books, just saying that compared to all viewers of media, the readership is quite small. Compared to other fantasy series it's quite big, but that's neither here nor there.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Amazon Prime has about 200 million subscribes. If the Venn diagram is more than 5%, I'd be pretty surprised.

Not dishing the books, just saying that compared to all viewers of media, the readership is quite small. Compared to other fantasy series it's quite big, but that's neither here nor there.
No, I get where you are coming from. My apologies of that wasncleae, I meant that a significant percentage of the engaged Wheel of Time fanbase are probably existing Amazon customers, and Prime originals are all about keeping people in their overall ecosystem. My sister is getting Amazon Prime this November just to get the Wheel of Time show.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
In this thread alone:

I get that you believe this is no big deal for other people, but you don’t get to decide that on behalf other people! If you insist on doing so anyway, especially in a manner that can’t be preemptively mitigated, you are doing so at the expense of other people’s agency.

And if you still don’t recognize that, I’ll have to ask: how would a complete stranger possibly have a chance to prevent you from spoiling some piece of old media that hasn’t even come up in conversation?

Note that none of the things you spoiled in the excerpts above had come up in this conversation by the time you spoiled them.
Common knowledge is not spoilers. Full stop. Any expectation to avoid mentioning any of those without warning is 100% out of line.

And again, you’ve provided no support for the truly astonishingly weird claim that this intersects meaningfully with the agency of people participating in public* forum discussions. It does not. No one’s agency is interfered with by even the most egregious spoilers, and the spoiler that started this debate was not especially egregious.

*no, the distinction of technical public status vs “open to the public and public facing” does not change any of this, so please don’t anyone derail the discussion with a nitpick about this website being privately owned?
 

Rune

Once A Fool
Common knowledge is not spoilers. Full stop. Any expectation to avoid mentioning any of those without warning is 100% out of line.

And again, you’ve provided no support for the truly astonishingly weird claim that this intersects meaningfully with the agency of people participating in public* forum discussions. It does not. No one’s agency is interfered with by even the most egregious spoilers, and the spoiler that started this debate was not especially egregious.

*no, the distinction of technical public status vs “open to the public and public facing” does not change any of this, so please don’t anyone derail the discussion with a nitpick about this website being privately owned?
Alright, let me try a different approach.

Since common knowledge does not equal universal knowledge, and since I can’t unread words of yours that I might unwittingly read, would you kindly, pretty please, use spoiler tags on these boards when you mention things that you would consider to be spoilers if they were not common knowledge as you define it?

This is only a personal request, of course. But, if it matters to you, I would take it as an indication of respect for my autonomy. You don’t have to understand why.

Certainly what I ask is an inconvenience, but it would mean a lot to me. Will you do me this favor?
 

TheSword

Legend
Common knowledge is not spoilers. Full stop. Any expectation to avoid mentioning any of those without warning is 100% out of line.

And again, you’ve provided no support for the truly astonishingly weird claim that this intersects meaningfully with the agency of people participating in public* forum discussions. It does not. No one’s agency is interfered with by even the most egregious spoilers, and the spoiler that started this debate was not especially egregious.

*no, the distinction of technical public status vs “open to the public and public facing” does not change any of this, so please don’t anyone derail the discussion with a nitpick about this website being privately owned?
If you were in a group about players considering playing a campaign hardback for the first time, would you consider it out of line to ask people who have read the book already to use spoiler tags to discuss things that might spoil the surprises in the book?

Or does your desire to discuss adventures trump the desire of people to play in them without having things spoiled?
 

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