Wheel of Time - No Spoilers

[GMMichael]

. . .Binging a well-made show is like chugging fine cognac.

Well then. I guess we're clear to binge the Wheel.

If anyone's got Netflix, Arcane (league of legends) is Muuuuuuuch more worth your time. Despite being a computer-enhanced sort of cartoon.

 

[TheSword]

So with Moiraine’s Magic turning the tide in the attack on Emonds Field in episode one, I’m struggling to think of other examples of Magic being used like that.

From memory she hurls some fire bolts, calls down lightning from the sky, slices someone in half with the power, telekinetically flings an axe in a trollocs face, blasts a few with concussive blasts then flings half the Winespring Inn at the remaining warband. It was Magic deployed for combat in a really physical and spectacular way. You can see her in a defensive posture scanning the battlefield for her next target. One of the stand out parts of the episodes so far for me. Reminiscent of Gandalf and Sauruman’s duel in Fellowship of the Ring but more varied and substantial.

Im struggling to think of any other live action media which uses magic like this… essentially in the same way we see it in a typical D&D combat? I had thought that Wheel of Time might end up more D&D than the D&D movies for this reason… the cost and difficulty of quality special effects.

What are people’s thoughts?

 

[Parmandur]

I've resigned myself I will never read the books. There isn't that much time in the world. But I will give the show a good chance.

I mean, the books are long, but not that long: I read the first 8 in a week.

 

[Umbran]

What are people’s thoughts?

I've watched the episode, but haven't read the books, so I don't know how well that scene reflected the source material. I found it a very engaging scene, and it gave much context to, "one of the Aes Sedai can turn a battle," we were told a few scenes earlier.

My wife, who has read the books, and loved the story (if not all Jordan's stalled, over-lengthy irrelevant prose about dresses and such) absolutely loved the battle scene, and how the magic was depicted.

 

[Morrus]

I mean, the books are long, but not that long: I read the first 8 in a week.

I have work to do!

 

[Parmandur]

I have work to do!

Fair: I was 15 at the time, and it was Summer.

 

[Umbran]

I mean, the books are long, but not that long: I read the first 8 in a week.

The books average 826 pages each, and there are 14 of them. For a total of 11,500+ pages.

By comparison, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, in total, all three books, has about 1137 pages.

 

[Parmandur]

The books average 826 pages each, and there are 14 of them. For a total of 11,500+ pages.

By comparison, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, in total, all three books, has about 1137 pages.

Yes, a couple weeks reading in spare time for all 14 books as opposed to a couple days for the LotR.

I suppose being a fast reader does warp my perceptions somewhat?

 

[Parmandur]

The books average 826 pages each, and there are 14 of them. For a total of 11,500+ pages.

By comparison, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, in total, all three books, has about 1137 pages.

Out of curiosity, I went and tested my reading speed, which is apparently about 690 words per minute with comprehension. That means the Wheel of Time would take ~106 hours for me to read in total straight through, while the Lord of the Rings would take ~14 hours. So yeah, two weeks worth of downtime reading, versus a weekend.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, a couple weeks reading in spare time for all 14 books as opposed to a couple days for the LotR.

I suppose being a fast reader does warp my perceptions somewhat?

Not necessarily fast, because you're quoting a duration that theoretically has things other than reading going on.

If you read one page per minute (which is well above average, but not uncommon), and devote 9 hours a day, every day, to reading, you can get through the thing in about three weeks.

 

[Umbran]

Out of curiosity, I went and tested my reading speed, which is apparently about 690 words per minute with comprehension.

So, that's way above average, which is more like 250 wpm, or about 2 minutes per page.

You say "with comprehension" - I'm going to push back and note that there's a difference between comprehension (which is measured in the short term) and retention, which is what you remember a day or a week later. My understanding is that, on average (not you, personally, but on average) reading speeds above about one page per minute negatively impact retention. The human brain just doesn't shove material into longer-term storage that quickly.

YMMV, of course.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I’m struggling to think of other examples of Magic being used like that.

That's because cheaty-maccheatyface has both wizard and druid spell lists.

 

[TheSword]

That's because cheaty-maccheatyface has both wizard and druid spell lists.

Ha ha yes. I did make a fairly robust Aes Sedai as either Community Druid or a Divine Soul Sorcerer.

 

[Parmandur]

So, that's way above average, which is more like 250 wpm, or about 2 minutes per page.

You say "with comprehension" - I'm going to push back and note that there's a difference between comprehension (which is measured in the short term) and retention, which is what you remember a day or a week later. My understanding is that, on average (not you, personally, but on average) reading speeds above about one page per minute negatively impact retention. The human brain just doesn't shove material into longer-term storage that quickly.

YMMV, of course.

Holy cow, at that speed I can understand why people might get frustrated with a longer book.

My retention rate is inversely proportional to the real world applicability of the information: I retain every bit of minutua about D&D or Lord of the Rings, but less about say, physics or biology.

Pushing the math a bit further, the Wheel of Time books, on average, would take me ~7.5 hours to read. So, given work, school, and children, it would take me a few days to finish a single book if I used my downtime with a book rather than here.

 

[Umbran]

Well then. I guess we're clear to binge the Wheel.

I guess that depends on what you call quality. I saw a lot to like in the first episode. Since you've given no material critique, there's not much to discuss with you beyond that.

Huh. I clearly wasn't paying attention during the opening exposition. Missed that fact completely!

That the Dragon came, and wrecked everything, is mentioned, but they very much didn't say how high the tech ladder they got before the fall. In the closing exposition, she suggests it has been a long time - long enough that the events of the last turn of the Wheel went from history, to legend, to myth, to being outright forgotten. From that, I get the impression that the turns of the Wheel are on the order of multiple millennia.

I don't think that, after thousands of years of recovery, it is really a post-apocalyptic setting. That would be like saying our own modern-day Europe is post-apocalyptic, when the apocalypse was the Black Death.

 

[Umbran]

My retention rate is inversely proportional to the real world applicability of the information: I retain every bit of minutua about D&D or Lord of the Rings, but less about say, physics or biology.

Under current real-world conditions, I find it depressing you think biology has less real-world application than Lord of the Rings.

 

[Parmandur]

I guess that depends on what you call quality. I saw a lot to like in the first episode. Since you've given no material critique, there's not much to discuss with you beyond that.



That the Dragon came, and wrecked everything, is mentioned, but they very much didn't say how high the tech ladder they got before the fall. In the closing exposition, she suggests it has been a long time - long enough that the events of the last turn of the Wheel went from history, to legend, to myth, to being outright forgotten. From that, I get the impression that the turns of the Wheel are on the order of multiple millennia.

I don't think that, after thousands of years of recovery, it is really a post-apocalyptic setting. That would be like saying our own modern-day Europe is post-apocalyptic, when the apocalypse was the Black Death.

As one might expect from a multi-million world tale, it is complex.

It is post-apocalyptic from a few angles. One, the people of the world are aware of the pas having existed, and what is possible with technology and magic. This actually comes up in a relevant way, as reinventing something you know can be done is a very different matter than fresh invention.

In another, there have been two mini-apocalyapses since the Breaking, gigantic wars that destroyed and remade society across the continent.

 

[Parmandur]

Under current real-world conditions, I find it depressing you think biology has less real-world application than Lord of the Rings.

No, quite the opposite, I think biology has more real world application. But my mind retains Tolkien genealogies across decades, but science facts go in one eyeball and out the other (my 6 year old has a mind like a trap for animal and plant facts, at least). I have a trivial mind.

 

[wicked cool]

Watched first episode last night didn't realize there were three.

Watching pt 2 now. Looks amazing and was fun enough. Wondering how it will compare to Witcher and Shadow and Bone.

i think its a better show overall than shadow and bone but i would argue that some of the acting in shadow and bone is better (especially the lead bad guy)

 

[Maxperson]

No, quite the opposite, I think biology has more real world application. But my mind retains Tolkien genealogies across decades, but science facts go in one eyeball and out the other (my 6 year old has a mind like a trap for animal and plant facts, at least). I have a trivial mind.

Perhaps your retention is about how interested you are in the subject. I retain fantasy books and games better than I do boring real world subjects as well. Real world subjects I have an interest in, though, those I retain just fine.