Wheel of Time S3

[Parmandur]

Started the final book today! Thought Towers of Midnight was very solid, but suffered a bit from not having Jordan writing it (Gathering Storm I felt was spot on to Jordan's style/tone).

You know what, that's really funny because of the two books Towers of Midnight is apparently more of Jordan's own text than Gathering Storm is (the Tower of Genji sewuence is entirely writtenby Jordan, for instance), though frankly one of the main reasons Sanderson was chosen to finish these is that he actually has a pretty similar writing style in general. He read Eye of the World before Lord of the Rings, so Jordan's wa s primary stylistic influence.

The general consensus is that Sanderson's Rand and Perein are pitch perfect across all three boosk, but yoy van sort of tell when a Mat chapter was written by Jordan or Sanderson.

As a side note given today's news, can't help thinking that BLeeM is going to attempt something on the scale of WoT with Campaign 4 of Critical Role. He'll certainly have about as many important protagonists

You know what, if it goes on long enough, yeah.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

BLeeM

LOL I had no idea people called him that, that's amazing.

I have serious reservations about this 13-person 3-group plan he has but hey, I guess we'll see.

 

[OB1]

LOL I had no idea people called him that, that's amazing.

I have serious reservations about this 13-person 3-group plan he has but hey, I guess we'll see.

Ha, yeah they had to figure out something since BM and BLM were taken for very differ t concepts.

as for the 13/3. Yeah it’s ambitious, and I give everyone props for even attempting it. It’s either gonna be a masterpiece or explode from within.

 

[OB1]

Finished the series yesterday! An absolutely epic conclusion that resolved it's conflicts with grace and power. This will go into rotation for me with The Dark Tower and The Expanse as once a decade or so re-reads, I think.

Not sure where I'd rank it among those three long series right at the moment. As much as was gotten right in the end, there were a few things that really bugged me. Gonna let it sit with me a while and see how I feel in a few weeks.

 

[Parmandur]

Finished the series yesterday! An absolutely epic conclusion that resolved it's conflicts with grace and power. This will go into rotation for me with The Dark Tower and The Expanse as once a decade or so re-reads, I think.

Not sure where I'd rank it among those three long series right at the moment. As much as was gotten right in the end, there were a few things that really bugged me. Gonna let it sit with me a while and see how I feel in a few weeks.

Definitely not a flawless series, but they do stick the landing overall. I think the series would have e been better if he slowed the pave of releases after Lords of Cbaos and took a few years to work on the outline and execution of the various threads: in retrospect, Jordan had a relentless pace, 11 novels (PLUS the prequel novel New Spring, well worth a read BTW) in 17 years.

This is definitely a series that is improved by a re-read: kt really is impressive how many details from early on in the series were definitely planned to key into the ending: the middle is where things got messy.

The original outline was for three novels:

• Eye of the World-Dragon reborn, book 1
• The Shadow Riaing through Winters Heart, book 2
• Crossroads of Twilight-Memory of Light, book 3

Crazy mission creep.

 

[OB1]

Definitely not a flawless series, but they do stick the landing overall. I think the series would have e been better if he slowed the pave of releases after Lords of Cbaos and took a few years to work on the outline and execution of the various threads: in retrospect, Jordan had a relentless pace, 11 novels (PLUS the prequel novel New Spring, well worth a read BTW) in 17 years.

This is definitely a series that is improved by a re-read: kt really is impressive how many details from early on in the series were definitely planned to key into the ending: the middle is where things got messy.

The original outline was for three novels:

• Eye of the World-Dragon reborn, book 1
• The Shadow Riaing through Winters Heart, book 2
• Crossroads of Twilight-Memory of Light, book 3

Crazy mission creep.

That is some serious mission creep. And yeah, my main concern with the series (and even the last three books) is that it needs a really good edit. Maybe 25-30% cut out and it would really pop. At the same time, I don't mind an author writing their way out of trouble and just going for it (King is like this as well) as opposed to getting stuck trying to release the 'perfect' book (ahem...Martin...).

As a whole, the final three books were incredible, and yes, stuck the landing, though I would have liked to have seen the women of the series with a bit more to do in Memory of Light. They all had big moments, but boy did it spend a lot of page count on secondary male characters while the ladies were left in the background, espcially during the Last Battle.

I have a feeling the series will grow on me, espcially on a second reading, I liked but didn't love the end of the Dark Tower when I first finished it (that series I read along with each release over a couple decades, and was sort of my Wheel of Time) and thought the middle book Wizard and Glass to be completely superfluous, but on 2nd read that 4th book is now my favorite and I think the ending is perhaps the best fantasy ending of all time.

One last note on WoT. As I'm reading The Last Battle, I couldn't help but think that this was what the end of the Skywalker saga should have been. And I think that JJ may have even been trying to crib from WoT when he made Rise of Skywalker, but of course if you don't earn an end like that you can't just pop it in and expect it to have any emotional impact. On the flip side, I always thought Jordan was heavily influenced by the OT, and in some ways The Last Battle did remind me of the climactic battle in Return of the Jedi. And so the Wheel keeps turning, weaving as it will.

 

[Gradine]

This is definitely a series that is improved by a re-read: kt really is impressive how many details from early on in the series were definitely planned to key into the ending:

Except for that one time a Trolloc could talk for no reason

 

[Parmandur]

That is some serious mission creep. And yeah, my main concern with the series (and even the last three books) is that it needs a really good edit. Maybe 25-30% cut out and it would really pop. At the same time, I don't mind an author writing their way out of trouble and just going for it (King is like this as well) as opposed to getting stuck trying to release the 'perfect' book (ahem...Martin...).

As a whole, the final three books were incredible, and yes, stuck the landing, though I would have liked to have seen the women of the series with a bit more to do in Memory of Light. They all had big moments, but boy did it spend a lot of page count on secondary male characters while the ladies were left in the background, espcially during the Last Battle.

I have a feeling the series will grow on me, espcially on a second reading, I liked but didn't love the end of the Dark Tower when I first finished it (that series I read along with each release over a couple decades, and was sort of my Wheel of Time) and thought the middle book Wizard and Glass to be completely superfluous, but on 2nd read that 4th book is now my favorite and I think the ending is perhaps the best fantasy ending of all time.

One last note on WoT. As I'm reading The Last Battle, I couldn't help but think that this was what the end of the Skywalker saga should have been. And I think that JJ may have even been trying to crib from WoT when he made Rise of Skywalker, but of course if you don't earn an end like that you can't just pop it in and expect it to have any emotional impact. On the flip side, I always thought Jordan was heavily influenced by the OT, and in some ways The Last Battle did remind me of the climactic battle in Return of the Jedi. And so the Wheel keeps turning, weaving as it will.

There are definite Star Wars and Lord of the Rings DNAin there. It really shows in the Last Battle that Robert Jordan was an old school historical wargamer, who spent 4 million words setting up his 200+ pahe wargame scenario. Also, the Robert Howard influence is pretty strong (Robert Jordan's first published fantasy novel was the movelizatuon of Conan the Destroyer, and his subsequent series of novels were a high watermark for post-Howard Conan), and his Vietnam experience, but above all Arthuriana there are some major dep cuts sprinkled throughout the books. He really made a big enough canvas that he could use all his influences. "The Origins of the Wheel of Time" by Micnael Livingstone (professor of Mexieval literature at The Citadel, Jordan's Alma mater) is absolutely fascinating.

As far as Rise of Skywalker...I know J. J. Abrams is familiar with Brandon Sanderson, seems he may have been one of the parties who has almost made a Cosmere movie in the past two decades.

 

[Parmandur]

Except for that one time a Trolloc could talk for no reason

Fair: I think he got bored of Trollocs when humanity's inhumanity to humanity was more interesting to him than cartoon OD&D Humanoids.