D&D General When and where did the idea of Ranger as "wilderness rogue" start?

[Willie the Duck]

They were implied to be stealthy in 1e as well, hence they surprised 3 in 6 rather than the standard 2 in 6. Not quite as good as an elf or halfling, but not restricted to non-metal armors either.

Going by the oD&D version, the lower surprise threshold was "Because of their ability to track Rangers also are difficult to surprise."

Ranger has always been Wilderness focussed fighter with theif/rogue skills - the 1e Ranger was a Fighter variant proficient in woodcraft, tracking, scouting, infiltration, and spying. ie Wilderness + Stealth

and they started at 2d8 so d8 is original too

As for Aragorn the OD&D had Strider as the Rangers first level-name

I think this is all going to go down to subjective perspective. Especially which version seemed more 'Aragorn-ish.' When I played 1E, it did seem odd for them to be wearing plate. However, but honestly that's more of a strange conceit of D&D (that you would wear battlefield armor while wandering about in the wilderness) that Tolkien simply didn't share. Aragorn in the novels wears armor appropriate to the situation (as does Conan, for that matter).
Regardless, the ranger definitely started out trying to be an Aragorn expy. Which version captured that best, IMO, is really an exercise in what you consider important.

AD&D 2E certainly made the ranger more dissimilar to a fighter, especially in the mobile striker vs. durable tank or aggro framing OP references. In PHB AD&D 1E, they acted very much the same as fighters, minus the who they could work with and what followers they attracted. Unearthed Arcana had started something by requiring them to take proficiency in weapons that worked with 1Es 2wf rules, but that really didn't make them much less front-line-ish. 2E codified that into natural 2wf ability, but only if they were more lightly armored (in 2e a strict durability downgrade, since you could get full dex bonus to AC in any armor). That, plus 2 thief abilities that were armor-dependent. So I guess that was the first mechanical thing which started incentivizing a strike-over-tank characterization. Even then, they likely fought very much the same as a fighter, since all martials of the time were ranged/melee switch-hitters. D&D 3E made more skills a ranger would take be armor dependent*, and narrowed the AC difference between strong hero in plate and dexterous hero in leather by capping dex bonus to AC for heavier armor. 5e really just takes that just a little bit further by making dex to combat damage automatic for ranged and most 2wf weapons, so a ranger isn't trying to split the difference between high-str and high-dex. Also 5e just makes mobile fighting overall easier to do, by not having to sacrifice second attacks to move more than 5'.
*or in swimming's case, such that you might reasonably swim in leather, but not plate.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The ranger being a 'fighter' doesn't pack so much point considering rogue is usually a better fighter than Fighter.

 

[Minigiant]

Let me clarify what I meant by wilderness "rogue". I did not just mean having wilderness skills. Of course they have always had those.

What I primarily meant was being closer in class function/role to a fragile "striker" rogue than to a "sturdy warrior". Secondarily, I include having lots of non-magical skills versus primarily shining as a warrior.

Because medium armor sucks in classic D&D and modern D&D.​

 

[jmartkdr2]

There still isn't IMO.

Rangers have always been and still are the "wilderness warrior" and serve as point-man more so than a scout IMO. They were adept at scouting, even in 1E (surprising on 3 in 6 and only surprised on 1 in 6), and only higher level rogue were better at "hiding in shadows and moving quietly".

I never played 3E much and 4E not at all, so maybe there were shifts there.

But in 5E, they are still the wilderness warrior, point-man, and scout IMO.


Yep, and were able to add their CON bonus to HP to BOTH hit dice (along with the Monk class), allowing them to start with more HP (max 24!) than even the 1E UA Barbarian!

Just to fill in:

3e rangers were still mostly warriors, with extra skill points, an animal companion, and a few spells. The fighter got extra feats. Aside from some variance in how useful specific abilities were, rangers were pretty close to paladins in structure.

4e rangers were non-magical and basically just dex fighters. Actual fighters really couldn’t focus on dual-wielding or archery. Those were ranger weapons.

 

[Voadam]

Let me clarify what I meant by wilderness "rogue". I did not just mean having wilderness skills. Of course they have always had those.

What I primarily meant was being closer in class function/role to a fragile "striker" rogue than to a "sturdy warrior". Secondarily, I include having lots of non-magical skills versus primarily shining as a warrior.

I would say 2e.

That was when they had class power incentives to be lightly armored.

The 1e ranger had more striker high damage bonus of plus one per level against giant class, basically anything humanoid to giant, but no incentive to be low armor. So they were still tank roles in combat along with fighters and paladins.

A fighter in low armor takes up the thief combat role imo. So AD&D fighter thieves are generally in that same non tank combat role too.

 

[Kaiyanwang]

3e had Ranger closer as template to the Fighter.
Truth to be told, as it happened with the Paladin, Pathfinder refined the 3e Ranger quite a bit, restoring d10 HDs and even adding the Medium Armor proficiency. A few 3e splatbooks had awesome archery-related Ranger spells, though.
Of note, 3e/PF have Rogue archetypes (PF1e) and Rogue-adjacent (3.5) called Scouts. While the math can be improved the 3e Scout has a nice mechanic that puts emphasis on movement and Skirmish. Ironically, a few PF1e talent chains would immensely help the 3e Scout (and if the DM allows it, they can in practice).
The 3e Scout has trapfinding, uncany dodge and Evasion BTW.

This is important in my opinion because while the two classes have a "wild" and "stealthy" BG, it shows that there is a distinct concept, with separate or separable design space, bewteen a Ranger (Fighter) and a Scout (Rogue).
Finally, both the 3e and PF1e Ranger get bonus feats, which is very Fighter-like in those editions.

 

[Yaarel]

Ranger was orginally--and for quite a long time--squarely in the full warrior category. There was no hint of seeing them as in any sort of thief/rogue combat role. This was true least from 1e through 3.0e D&D.

In 3.5e rangers got their hp reduced from the warrior's d10s to d8s (but rogues and bards were still rocking d6s then) and got their number of skill points increased and armor proficiencies reduced. They did however keep the warrior level number and efficacy of atracks.

Is 3.5e where it started?

In 4e they were defined as Martial Strikers along with rogues. Is that where it started?

Did it start in a non-D&D source?

It's something I always wonder about. And even though it isn't accurate for 5e, where they have been back to their roots as full warriors since 2014, people still have the idea in their minds. WotC even made it official in the 2024 PHB by listing them as an alternate option for the rogue. There is no justification for that, and it is misleading, though perhaps irrelevant in context of 5e rogues. I can't help but see the likely reason it was listed there deriving mostly from the "ranger as wilderness rogue" concept.

So, someone please help set the record straight. When and where did this idea get started?

The 1e Ranger is a Fighter subclass.

However Drizzt is Drow with superhuman Dexterity including full ambidexterity for dual wielding scimitars. The popularity of this character transformed the concept of the class. Various peculiaritis are Drizztisms.

 

[Horwath]

Ranger is a class pulled in a triangle of fighter, rogue and druid, and everyone here has a personal view in what corner or on what side of that triangle ranger is.

some want spells, some want no spells, some more expertise, some more extra attacks, some more beasts, some more tracking/foraging.

that is why I made homebrew version of ranger, that I still have to update to 2024 standards, but soon enough;

Custom made Ranger;

Spoiler: Starting proficiencies

HD; d10

Weapons; simple and martial

Armor: light, medium, shields

Skills: 3, suggested; Stealth, Perception, Survival, Nature,

Tools: 2, suggested; cartography, navigators tool, herbalism tools, woodcarving,

Saves: Str and Dex

Class features:

View attachment 263188


Talent: ranger receives a large number of Ranger talents, description later on

Fighting style: pick one fighting style

Feat: pick one feat that you have prerequirements

Extra attack: make additional weapon attacks with your Attack action

Epic boon: gain epic boon or in exchange 2 Ranger talents.


Ranger talents:

Spoiler: Ranger Talents

Skill training: gain proficiency in two skills, pickable again at 6th level, 3rd time at 12th level, 4th time at 18th level

Expertise: gain expertise in two skills, can be taken again at 7th level, 3rd time at 13th level, 4th time at 19th level.

Tools of the trade: gain proficiency in any combination of 4 tools and languages. Can be taken 2 times.

Survivalist: you have advantage on saves vs hot and cold climate, weather exposure and lack of food and water

Night training: requires expertise in perception; gain darkvision of 60ft or improve darkvision by 60ft, can be take 2nd time at 10th level. If taken 3rd time at 20th level, you have unlimited darkvision in color and treat darkness as bright light.

Daylight adaptation: remove sunlight sensitivity

Eagle eyes: you can see clearly and without penalty to Perception/Investigation at distance of 1 mile

Favored terrain: pick one favored terrain, this can be picked any number of times

Favored enemy: pick one favored enemy, this can be picked any number of times

Juggernaut: requires 13+ Str; gain proficiency in heavy armor and ignore stealth penalties of armors

Primeval awareness: by concentrating for 1 minute, you can sense presense of dragons, aberrations, celestials, elementals, feys, fiends or undead within one mile. For every minute after you can expand the radius by one mile. Max radius in miles is equal to your proficiency bonus. You can do this a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus. You learn what type is present, but not direction or numbers or size.

Sentry; increase numbers of hrs you can spend in light activity during long rest by your proficiency modifier. No Perception penalty while sleeping.

Forager: advantage on Survival for gathering food and water, find double amount with success. Remain alert while foraging.

Trailblazer: you can move at fast pace and have no penalty for Perception, Stealth and Survival.

Endurance: halve effective exhaustion levels(halve down), remove one exhaustion level at short rest.

Poisoner: requires poisoners kit proficiency, Ranger level 3; you can create simple poisons during Long rest. You can create a number of doses equal to your proficiency bonus.
Poisons created this way stay potent for 24hrs or until you prepare them again.
Applying the poison to weapon is a Bonus action. Poison once applied stays potent for 1 minute.
Poison deals 1d4 damage per proficiency bonus and gives poisoned condition to your target until the start of your next turn.
Target can halve the damage and negate condition with Con save. DC is 8+2×your proficiency bonus.

Natural healer: requires Medicine proficiency, Ranger level 2; you can prepare a number of healing potions equal to your proficiency bonus during a Long rest
potions stay potent for 24hrs or until you prepare them again.
potions heal for 1d4 per your proficiency bonus and remove one disease and poison.
Using these potions is a Bonus action.


Darkstalker; Requires Darkvision, Requires expertise in Stealth, Ranger level 3: you can Hide from darkvision without cover or concealment

Though: requires Endurance, Rangerlevel 6; you can spend a HD as a bonus action and regain HPs equal to your roll plus your Con mod. You can do this a number of times equal to your prof mod per long rest. During short rest you heal max amount from your HDs.

Nature's step: Requires Ranger level 6; You leave no tracks and move normally through natural difficult terrain.

Stealthy: Requires Natures step, Ranger level 7, while you move at half speed or less, or travel at a slow pace you have advantage on Stealth check.

Deepstalker: requires Darkstalker, Ranger level 7; you are immune to detection to blindsight, blindsense, tremorsense, scent, echolocation, etc, while you beat creatures passive perception with your Stealth.

Vanish: requires Stealthy, Ranger level 7: you can use Hide as Bonus action and when only lightly obscured.

Camouflage: requires Vanish, Ranger level 9, while you remain motionless for 1 minute, you gain +10 to your Stealth, you lose this bonus when you move.

Animal companion: gain a small companion, take this talent again at 3rd level for medium companion, take this talent again at 9th level for large companion, take this talent again at 17th level for Huge companion.

Animal fury: requires, Animal companion, Ranger level 11; your companion gains 2nd attack, , take this talent again at 17th level for 3rd attack.

Magical companion: Requires Animal companion, Ranger level 7; your companions attacks are treated as magical and once on your turn your animal companion deals extra 1d6 damage. Damage is acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison or thunder.

Twin companion: Requires Animal companion, Magical companion, Ranger level 20; you can have two companions summoned at the same time.

Druid training, basic: gain two druid cantrips, this talent can be taken 2nd time at level 10.

Druid training, 1st level: requires basic training, Ranger level 2; learn 2 druid 1st level spells, gain two 1st level slots. Can be taken two times.

Druid training, 2nd level: requires 1st level training, Ranger level 5, learn one druid cantrip, learn 2nd level druid spell, gain one 2nd level spell slot. Can be taken 3 times

Druid training, 3rd level: requires 2nd level training, Ranger level 9, learn one 3rd level druid spell, gain one 3rd level spell slot, Can be taken 3 times. 3rd time must be at 11th level or higher.

Druid training, 4th level: requires 3rd level training, Ranger level 13, learn one 4th level druid spell, gain one 4th level spell slot, Can be taken 3 times. 2nd time must be at 15th level. 3rd time at 17th level or higher.

Druid training, 5th level: requires 4h level training, Ranger level 17, learn one 5th level druid spell, gain one 5th level spell slot, Can be taken 2 times. 2nd time must be at 19th level or higher.

Druid training, 6th level: requires 5h level training, Ranger level 20, learn one 6th level druid spell, gain one 6th level spell slot.

Elemental attacks; requires Ranger level 17: all your attacks deal extra +1d6 damage. Damage is picked from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison or Thunder damage.

Extra attack(3): requires Ranger level 20: gain 4th attack in your Attack action

Favored enemies:

All favored enemies provide you with this benefits:
Advantage on all "knowledge" checks(Arcana, History, Nature, Religion) to recall informations on them.
Advantage on Insight, Perception and Survival checks.
One language typically spoken by them.
Once on your turn you deal extra damage to them equal to your proficiency bonus.

Specific bonuses:

Spoiler: Specific Favored enemy bonuses

Aberrations:
Resistance to psychic damage.
Telepathy to 60ft one way.
Bonus action to link with one creature within 60ft to have 2 way communication while within number of miles equal to your Ranger level.
This links ends when one of you willingly ends the link, goes out of range, fall unconcious or finishes a long rest.

Beasts:
Gain scent ability.
Permanent speak with animals ability.
+5ft movement speed

Celestials:
Resistance to radiant damage.
Advantage to charisma checks.

Constructs:
Double damage vs objects
You attacks ignore damage resistance to bludgeoning, slashing and piercing.


Dragons:
Advantage vs fear effects
Advantage on Dex saves vs. Area effects.

Elementals:
Pick one energy type: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning or Thunder. Gain resistance on that type of damage.
your attacks ignore resistance to that type of damage. and treat immunity as resistance.

Fey:
resistance vs charm and figment
advantage on all Insight checks.

Fiends:
resistance to fire and poison.

Giant:
Attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against you.
Once per round deal +1d6 weapon damage vs target with less than 50% HP.

Humanoids:
Gain proficiency in 2 skills from: History, Insight, Deception, Intimidation, Persuation.
Learn 2 additional languages.

Monstrosities:
gain one of the following:
+5 speed, full climb speed, full swim speed, darkvision +60ft.

Oozes:
Advantage vs grappling.
Advantage on squeezing through tight space or out of bonds.

Plants:
Permanent speak with plants
Resistance vs poisons

Undead:
resistance vs necrotic damage.
immunity to Max HP reduction.
advantage on death saves.

Favored terrains:

Specific bonuses:

Spoiler: Specific terrain bonuses

Arctic:
Cold resistance
Advantage on check for uneven surfaces

Coastal:
Swim speed equal to walking speed.
water breathing

Desert:
Fire resistance.
Can last double amount of time without food or water.

Forest:
climb speed equal to walking speed.
jump distance doubled

Grassland:
+10 move speed.
can march for 10 instead of 8hrs

Mountain:
Climb speed equal to walking speed
high altitude adaptation.

Swamp:
Resistance and advantage vs poisons and diseases

Underdark:
+60ft darkvision

Animal companions:

You can summon a companion with a 10 min ritual. You determine the type(beast of the Land, Water, Air or Dark) and size(if available) every time you summon it.
You can complete this ritual as a part of short or long rest.
Animal companion can move and take reactions when you command it for free.
Commanding and Actions except Dodge, requires your Bonus action or one attack from your Attack action.

You can ride a companion equal to your size or larger.
Your companion must be atleast Large size and one size smaller than you to use it as a flying mount.

Spoiler: Companions

Small companion:

Abilities:
Str 15, dex 14, con 15, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 30ft, special: Land; climb 30ft, Air: fly 40ft, Water: swim 30ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 15ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 4 + 4×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 3×3 your Ranger level

AC: 12+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d6+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d4+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.


Medium companion:

Abilities:
Str 17, dex 14, con 17, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 40ft, special: Land; climb 40ft, Air: fly 60ft, Water: swim 40ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 20ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 5 + 5×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 4×4 your Ranger level

AC: 13+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d8+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d6+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.


Large companion:

Abilities:
Str 19, dex 14, con 19, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 50ft, special: Land; climb 50ft, Air: fly 100ft, Water: swim 50ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 25ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 6 + 6×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 5×5 your Ranger level

AC: 14+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d10+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d8+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.


Huge companion:

Abilities:
Str 21, dex 14, con 21, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 60ft, special: Land; climb 60ft, Air: fly 120ft, Water: swim 60ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 30ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 7 + 7×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 6×6 your Ranger level

AC: 15+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d12+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d10+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I would prefer if they removed the forced "nature" part of the ranger. I view them as hunters, be it humanoids or monsters. Of course their prey rarely lives in a city, but it's not impossible, so I'd like their spells list to include a mix of any power source that would give an edge against particular monsters (ie: protection against evil) rather than natur-y spells (ie: entangle).

Closer to the depiction of the Witchers or the Good Hunter than a half-druidic nature protector.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Because medium armor sucks in classic D&D and modern D&D.​

It does not. It is ok for quite some level ranges and for some classes it stays well enough.

For light armor to be better, you need dex 18 or even 20. Heavy armor should be better at the cost of hindering stealth.

Medium Armor is the most versatile. You can wear breast plate or half-plate and have fine AC.

(I think the new medium armor master sucks a bit though... they should have kept the stealth penalty removal.)