Dark Jezter
First Post
Prince of Happiness said:
Well... the character of Quincy Morris in Bram Stoker's Dracula is a cowboy. Does that count?
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When did the wild west stop being cool?
- Thread starter CarlZog
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Well... the character of Quincy Morris in Bram Stoker's Dracula is a cowboy. Does that count?
Prince of Happiness
First Post
Dark Jezter said:Well... the character of Quincy Morris in Bram Stoker's Dracula is a cowboy. Does that count?
*voice of Dr. Quinn from Sealab 2021* No.
But who knows how many Quincy Morris types I've made for Masque of the Red Death!
I've got to agree with Ranger REG. John Wayne is the ultimate cowboy, indeed possibly even the ultimate American because he is the archetype of the Rugged Individualist, a view of life that is sadly increasingly lacking in our modern world. A man like John Wayne is what every American ought to aspire to be -- independent, lives by his own judgement, live-and-let-live with anyone who will reciprocate, agressing against none yet won't tolerate being agressed against.
Despite the disparagements of some, he never was a genocidal maniac. Although the portrayal of Indians in the movies may not have been the most positive, Wayne's character often had respectful friendships with non-whites, and he never went out on racist killing rampages just for the sake of killing Indians. His characters nearly always always sought some aspect of Justice, and only went after those who had done wrong, e.g. raiding and killing settlers.
John Wayne is cool. Always has been, always will be! It's people who don't like John Wayne who are not cool.
Despite the disparagements of some, he never was a genocidal maniac. Although the portrayal of Indians in the movies may not have been the most positive, Wayne's character often had respectful friendships with non-whites, and he never went out on racist killing rampages just for the sake of killing Indians. His characters nearly always always sought some aspect of Justice, and only went after those who had done wrong, e.g. raiding and killing settlers.
John Wayne is cool. Always has been, always will be! It's people who don't like John Wayne who are not cool.
Incenjucar
Legend
I loved that Liberty Valance song when I was a kid...
Westerns were greatly affected by the period of time in which they were made. They were usually fairly racist and sexist in execution, with the whole "Cowboys and Injuns" thing. Hence why so many Westerns these days are counter to it, like the Westerns with a bunch of women as the stars (Yet they all happened to look like supermodels, rather than a nice five-toothed, raggedy Calamity Jane). You also have the fact that so few people can identify with Old West life. I, personally, grew up riding horses. I know the bond between rider and mount very well, heck, I'd better since I feed the buggers twice a day every day, and have had to help deal with them ripping their legs open and breaking various parts (Live horse meat looks like really nice steak, by the way). Many people in the large cities may have never even TOUCHED a horse before. Or dodged rattle snakes. Or seen a clear star-filled night. Or actually hunt for food. Or had a camp fire. Etc etc.
These days, it's actually easier to identify with Spiderman, since, while superpowered, has an urban personality and a very identifiable nature. Sundance Kid, not so much.
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But yeah, Wayne ruled. He had a few things here and there, but he respected people who deserved it, rather than because they had authority or could get him what he wanted, and he didn't disrespect anyone who didn't do so first. Also, "Dog" ruled.
Westerns were greatly affected by the period of time in which they were made. They were usually fairly racist and sexist in execution, with the whole "Cowboys and Injuns" thing. Hence why so many Westerns these days are counter to it, like the Westerns with a bunch of women as the stars (Yet they all happened to look like supermodels, rather than a nice five-toothed, raggedy Calamity Jane). You also have the fact that so few people can identify with Old West life. I, personally, grew up riding horses. I know the bond between rider and mount very well, heck, I'd better since I feed the buggers twice a day every day, and have had to help deal with them ripping their legs open and breaking various parts (Live horse meat looks like really nice steak, by the way). Many people in the large cities may have never even TOUCHED a horse before. Or dodged rattle snakes. Or seen a clear star-filled night. Or actually hunt for food. Or had a camp fire. Etc etc.
These days, it's actually easier to identify with Spiderman, since, while superpowered, has an urban personality and a very identifiable nature. Sundance Kid, not so much.
--
But yeah, Wayne ruled. He had a few things here and there, but he respected people who deserved it, rather than because they had authority or could get him what he wanted, and he didn't disrespect anyone who didn't do so first. Also, "Dog" ruled.
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Fimmtiu
First Post
I'm from a more recent generation, and I can still remember that I thought Westerns were cool growing up. The point at which they lost their appeal was when I started learning the actual history behind the mythology, which is rather cruel and frightening. Once you open up that can of worms, the whole "Western" genre begins to feel less like an adventure setting and more of a cultural rationalization. sort of a deliberate whitewashing of our country's atrocious behaviour. There's a million great ideas and motifs which can be borrowed from it wholesale (e.g., Firefly), but as a historical setting it just leaves me kind of depressed now.
Ahh, cultural guilt. Maybe I'd be happier if I'd just read less and watched more TV...
(Interesting but useless trivia: Yes, Fistful of Dollars is a direct ripoff of Yojimbo. But Yojimbo itself is based on a Japanese novel, which itself was based on a translation of a Dashiell Hammet novel, "Red Harvest". It's amazing how much abuse a story can take over the years and still be recognizable from its original source material.)
Ahh, cultural guilt. Maybe I'd be happier if I'd just read less and watched more TV...
(Interesting but useless trivia: Yes, Fistful of Dollars is a direct ripoff of Yojimbo. But Yojimbo itself is based on a Japanese novel, which itself was based on a translation of a Dashiell Hammet novel, "Red Harvest". It's amazing how much abuse a story can take over the years and still be recognizable from its original source material.)
Fimmtiu
First Post
J_D said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but did you ever see The Conqueror? John Wayne as bloody Genghis Khan. It's as bad as it sounds. Wayne trying to act like an Asian barbarian in bad makeup while speaking with a silly accent is quite possibly the saddest thing I've ever seen on celluloid.
Sorry, totally off-topic.
Fimmtiu said:
Yeah, now that you mention it I remember. Probably the single most out-of-character film he did, and ultimately, it got him killed (the cancer he contracted from radiation from a nuclear weapon test site near the filming location). That movie was Howard Hughes pet project. Still, it's not nearly the worst movie I've ever seen -- there are far worse -- and if I recall correctly his more traditional character showed through in parts.
That one exception, though, does not detract from the substance of what I posted!
Ranger REG
Explorer
That's when sitcoms dominated television all over again in 1979, and to this day. But western does have a cult-like following, whether it was a modern-day prime-time soap opera (Dallas) or the unconventional Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, or even Young Riders (riding on the coattails of Young Guns).pogre said:
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