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When did the wild west stop being cool?
- Thread starter CarlZog
- Start date
Don't dig into any historical genre too deep, or you'll lose your taste rather quickly.
Beyond Westerns, slavery and the real brutal life of a sailor puts a stain on the Pirates genre. Even in Wuxia which is genre contained in a settled continent, where there are strong female heroes is a paradox compared to how women were treated in many Asian countries.
John Wayne playing the Khan is rather ironic. In much of Asia, the Mongols and the Gobi desert were seen in the same light as a rough frontier and "untamed savages."
[Useless knowledge]
Vetigable soup is a new menu item for the Mongols. It was introduced by the communist after they forced them to settle into farms.
[/usless knowledge]
Beyond Westerns, slavery and the real brutal life of a sailor puts a stain on the Pirates genre. Even in Wuxia which is genre contained in a settled continent, where there are strong female heroes is a paradox compared to how women were treated in many Asian countries.
John Wayne playing the Khan is rather ironic. In much of Asia, the Mongols and the Gobi desert were seen in the same light as a rough frontier and "untamed savages."
[Useless knowledge]
Vetigable soup is a new menu item for the Mongols. It was introduced by the communist after they forced them to settle into farms.
[/usless knowledge]
Templetroll
Explorer
Westerns are stories of an individual opposing something they see as wrong and that the community, in general, was unable or unwilling to do anything about. That inherent admiration of the individual (even if it is seven individuals 
) is what is non-PC nowadays. I'll stop that part of my post to avoid political comments. 
My first westerns were The Lone Ranger, with Clayton Moore and Roy Rogers. My daughter thinks TLR is a little slow going but that the horse and leaving silver bullets is cool.
Most 'western' themes are now exhibited in scifi. 'Star Trek' was "'Wagon Train' to the stars..." and is Riddick that far removed from the Man With No Name?
) is what is non-PC nowadays. I'll stop that part of my post to avoid political comments. My first westerns were The Lone Ranger, with Clayton Moore and Roy Rogers. My daughter thinks TLR is a little slow going but that the horse and leaving silver bullets is cool.
Most 'western' themes are now exhibited in scifi. 'Star Trek' was "'Wagon Train' to the stars..." and is Riddick that far removed from the Man With No Name?
Ranger REG
Explorer
I've always thought Brisco County Jr was a bit of a Western romp. Maybe it should have gone into the syndication market with the other romp adventure series like Hercules and Xena. It would probably enjoyed a much longer run.Orius said:
BTW, didn't PAX aired a Bonanza prequel series, Ponderosa?
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Henry
Autoexreginated
I grew up in the Shogun Warriors/ROM/Cartoon Godzilla/GIJoe era, myself, and while I used to own Western toys (11-inch Black-haired Butch Cavendish doll, anyone?) I never had an appreciation of the Western, either. Funny, but it wasn't until I grew up and watched Tombstone and Young Guns and Unforgiven that I gained an an appreciation for the genre. Guess it was because it was indeed not en vogue in the 1970's.
The western is a great genre, even the older movies, and John Wayne is awesome whether you slap a cowboy hat on 'im or stick 'im in a WW2 Corsair. And Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer were so good in Tombstone that it was one of my first video purchases (never bought much until the mid-90's.)
Western RPG's? Thought about them, but I've never had anyone take enough interest to start a campaign.
The western is a great genre, even the older movies, and John Wayne is awesome whether you slap a cowboy hat on 'im or stick 'im in a WW2 Corsair. And Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer were so good in Tombstone that it was one of my first video purchases (never bought much until the mid-90's.)
Western RPG's? Thought about them, but I've never had anyone take enough interest to start a campaign.
Desdichado
Hero
Yes, but his most unappreciated role was when you stick him in a beat up Land Rover in Tanzania and have him catch animals for zoos for a living. That, to this day, is my favorite John Wayne movie.Henry said:
Wombat
First Post
I was born in 1959
I am on the edge of the world where Westerns were still "cool". They died out for a long time and, quite frankly, with good reason -- they had run out of any new stories and had become incredibly hackneyed.
My mom's favourite tv show was Gunsmoke, the single longest running tv show in US history; to this it could be added that it followed in the wake of an incredibly long-running radio serial, so the characters were well-established prior to the show on tv. She also loved Ponderosa/Bonanza, The Paladin/Have Gun Will Travel, Maverick, The High Chapparal, etc. I kinda liked these films as well.
When the Spaghetti Westerns first came out there was a huge backlash against them -- they were violent, unglorified, and even the good guys were only marginally so. OTOH, they were the last great gasp of the Western as a genre, as opposed to individual films now and again.
I remember liking Westerns at first, but then becoming disillusioned with them -- the problem of studying the history of much of anything too long. You watched a standard Western matinee film and all Mexicans and Indians were idiots, murderers, or both. All cowboys were white, polite, and noble. Obviously the United States deserved all this free and open land, no matter if anyone else had claim to be before or not. You didn't see anything about the Black Kettle Massacre, Wounded Knee, or even the Buffalo Soldiers -- a very large percentage (some say the majority) of the US Cavalry in the Western Territories were black. In other words it became obvious that, like most other "historical" material I had been fed from the late 50s and early 60s, it was whitewashed, sanitized, bawlderized, and otherwise made to fit a useful notion after the fact.
This probably explains why I dislike setting any game in the "real world", especially in modern time. I am very involved, both through my schooling and my family, in the realities of the times -- I cannot stand the vulgarities of what passes for "history" in these cases.
A pure fantasy setting with some generalized historical analogs? No problem. Roleplay in "history". Nope, rarely worth it, especially as most people don't really know the history of the period they are trying to portray and start running a game that has late 20th century urban North American educated ideals tacked on to whatever period and place they happen to be running.
But an anecdote:
I was over in England several years ago visiting Tintagel. I have a fascination with the Arthurian legends (but have NO desire to find the "real" King Arthur). The night was cold, rainy and windy, thus explaining why many of the trees in that part of Cornwall appeared to grow sideways. As such, it was useless trying to go anywhere outside. We sat down in the pub/B&B with the owner and her kids and had a couple rounds.
The owner's son was about 16, 17. He wanted to know what drew this knot of Yanks across The Pond to what he considered the most godforsaken stretch of all of England. We told him that we were looking at sites connected with King Arthur.
"King A'thu'? Don' see the point, really. I mean, he was dead borin' wa'n't e? Now, ye's cowboys an' in'ians, they's int'restin'!"
Shows what a few thousand miles of difference will make in perceptions.
I am on the edge of the world where Westerns were still "cool". They died out for a long time and, quite frankly, with good reason -- they had run out of any new stories and had become incredibly hackneyed.
My mom's favourite tv show was Gunsmoke, the single longest running tv show in US history; to this it could be added that it followed in the wake of an incredibly long-running radio serial, so the characters were well-established prior to the show on tv. She also loved Ponderosa/Bonanza, The Paladin/Have Gun Will Travel, Maverick, The High Chapparal, etc. I kinda liked these films as well.
When the Spaghetti Westerns first came out there was a huge backlash against them -- they were violent, unglorified, and even the good guys were only marginally so. OTOH, they were the last great gasp of the Western as a genre, as opposed to individual films now and again.
I remember liking Westerns at first, but then becoming disillusioned with them -- the problem of studying the history of much of anything too long. You watched a standard Western matinee film and all Mexicans and Indians were idiots, murderers, or both. All cowboys were white, polite, and noble. Obviously the United States deserved all this free and open land, no matter if anyone else had claim to be before or not. You didn't see anything about the Black Kettle Massacre, Wounded Knee, or even the Buffalo Soldiers -- a very large percentage (some say the majority) of the US Cavalry in the Western Territories were black. In other words it became obvious that, like most other "historical" material I had been fed from the late 50s and early 60s, it was whitewashed, sanitized, bawlderized, and otherwise made to fit a useful notion after the fact.
This probably explains why I dislike setting any game in the "real world", especially in modern time. I am very involved, both through my schooling and my family, in the realities of the times -- I cannot stand the vulgarities of what passes for "history" in these cases.
A pure fantasy setting with some generalized historical analogs? No problem. Roleplay in "history". Nope, rarely worth it, especially as most people don't really know the history of the period they are trying to portray and start running a game that has late 20th century urban North American educated ideals tacked on to whatever period and place they happen to be running.
But an anecdote:
I was over in England several years ago visiting Tintagel. I have a fascination with the Arthurian legends (but have NO desire to find the "real" King Arthur). The night was cold, rainy and windy, thus explaining why many of the trees in that part of Cornwall appeared to grow sideways. As such, it was useless trying to go anywhere outside. We sat down in the pub/B&B with the owner and her kids and had a couple rounds.
The owner's son was about 16, 17. He wanted to know what drew this knot of Yanks across The Pond to what he considered the most godforsaken stretch of all of England. We told him that we were looking at sites connected with King Arthur.
"King A'thu'? Don' see the point, really. I mean, he was dead borin' wa'n't e? Now, ye's cowboys an' in'ians, they's int'restin'!"
Shows what a few thousand miles of difference will make in perceptions.
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