When Encounter Levels go wrong...

[Greybar]

Hmm. My gaming group has 6 PCs instead of the usual 4, and my plan has generally been to throw more "boss" badguys in encounters rather than a bigger boss. This after an attempt to put a serious hurtin' on them ending quickly with the enemy leader warrior grappled and hauled up into the sky.

The following encounter ran into a Clr4/Sor2 or so, a Minotaur Bbn4, two hound-like beasts of my creation (each CR5 or so), and a mass of cannon fodder. That worked out a lot better for fun and drama.

So I think you have the right idea (multiple leveled enemies), but you may have been overestimating the ability of the low-level enemies to get in and do much.

john

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

So I think you have the right idea (multiple leveled enemies), but you may have been overestimating the ability of the low-level enemies to get in and do much.

Exactly. Thats the conclussion I've drawn.

 

[Codragon]

A Ball Lightning, Cone of Sound and Fireball was pretty much the begining and end.

At least you got them to use up a few good spells. That's gotta count for something.

 

[Katerek]

I can relate to your woes.

I have been running my group with NINE PC's since december 2000. They are all 17th level now.

I have to get REAL creative in order to challenge them appropriately. Since there are nine players It always takes more baddies. On ething I have learned to do is to spread the love a little bit. Rather than a CR20 encounter featuring a single monster I sent a Demon hit squad after them this weekend.

Tehre was a balor, a marilith, and three hezrou. It only lasted three rounds, but it was a moderate challenge. There were a few in fear for a moment or two.

 

[James McMurray]

Why wasn't the druid casting from behind 9/10 cover? What kind of terrain was the battle fought in?

 

[Celebrim]

One rule of thumb I use is that if the CR of the creature is more than 1 below that of the players, only add 1 (not 2) to the EL each time you double the number of foes. I tend to round fractions down not up (and I tend to avoid odd numbers anyway).

Although there are alot of odd numbers involved that make calculation difficult, I would have treated that encounter as EL 8, which would in my opinion made it 2 levels below an equal challenge to the party (since they are on the heavy side of 9th). I would expect a party of 9th's to survive a large number of such encounters.

7 level 1's = CR somewhere between 3 and 4 (I'd expect a 4th level character to be able to handle 2 1st level characters a piece without breaking to much of a sweat).

1 level 3 = CR 3

3 ECL 5 = CR somewhere between 6 and 7 (not between 7 and 8).

2 ECL 6 = CR 7 (not 8).

Together I see this as roughly the equivalent of two CR 7's, so EL 8.

I hate to run combats this big, but a challenge of the following might have been more on par with the character's abilities:

4 Goblin Rog2 (concealed, +2 DEX compared to avg. goblins)
4 Hobgoblin Ftr2 (full cover to begin fight, probably with bow feats (point blank shot, weapon focus (longbow), precise shot), +2 DEX, and mw arrows, fights from 1/2 cover)
1 Hobgoblin Drd6 (+4 WIS, +2 CON, minor magic items) wt. 2 Dire Wolf Companions (full cover to begin fight, fights from 9/10th cover)
4 Bugbear Rog2/Ftr2 (concealed, +2 STR, +2 DEX)
2 Ogre Ftr2/Brb2 (+2 CON, in full plate with MW huge great axe, full cover to begin fight)

That is 8 CR 2's (effectively CR 5)
2 CR 3's (CR 4)
5 CR 6 (Roughly CR 8)
2 CR 7 (Roughly CR 8)

Which is on the heavy side of CR 9, or EL 10, just like the party.

They'd still get slaughtered, but they would use up a good deal more party resources assuming your spell caster's AC isn't that high. Problem is though, anything that can challenge your party is going to decimate thier cohorts if they get in the way.

 

[James McMurray]

Problem is though, anything that can challenge your party is going to decimate thier cohorts if they get in the way.

Nothing wrong with that. Its one of the downsides to bringing cohorts adventuring. Besides, they are replacable. Heck, it might not even be true if the cohorts are only one level lower than the character with the leadership feat. The cohorts from the example weren't, but the cohorts from the example should be falling over dead left and right on the kind of adventures that party can handle.

 

[Corinth]

Besides, where would gaming be without encounters like that of the Fellowship vs. Saruman's Uruk-Hai at Amon Hen?

 

[Squire James]

Lots of little guys like that usually do exactly what they did... strip off one top-shelf spell from each spellcaster. If you want "little guy" encounters to work, they must occur in multiple waves. A challenging set of encounters would be 3 waves of monsters like you described, spaced roughly 2 hours apart (4 hours if they have reason to believe Bull's Strength and such are flying around). Perhaps the druid in the last wave is somewhat near the party level, to serve as a boss.

In short:

1. PC's should occasionally wish they didn't toss off their best spells at the first enemy they saw.

2. There needs to be an orc powerful enough to expect to hit Boromir with a few arrows, if you know what I mean!

 

[Geoff Watson]

Sometimes things go wrong (or right for the PCs) and 'challenging' encounter is a walkover. Sometimes a 'weak' encounter kicks the PCs butts.
So the goblins had bad luck. Maybe the next monsters will have better luck.

Geoff.