When is LA worth it?

[Shadowdweller]

IMX, the real killer isn't the LA, but racial hit dice. It's not so much that the benefits of generic race levels are hideously pathetic compared with (non-caster) classes, but coupled with the fact that many races with racial hit dice also have level adjustments, there's just too much delay in obtaining the later class abilities. There are, of course, extreme variations but a lot of races, such as half-celestials, half-dragons, half-fiends, or pixies can be made into very playable characters. At a net adjustment of +6 via racial hit dice however, a centaur just isn't worth it IMO.

 

[Kalanyr]

I think the problem is that LA's rarely factor in the implict LA of the racial HD, that is the racial HD of creatures is a disadvantage that should slightly reduce LA. As it stands at the moment 1 HD of fey, and +2 to Int and Cha, with nothing else is an LA +2 race. You'd pretty much have to be insane.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

LA is only worth it when you gain bonuses to Str and Con.

Natural armor is also pretty nice.

Everything else suxxors.





(BTW, I am playing a half-ogre (LA +2) monk L5/tattooed monk L2 in a 3.0 RttToEE game.

My compatriot is playing a half-dragon fighter/barbarian.

Another person is playing a half-celestial paladin.

Started at level 4. No problems so far. Low hps to start kinda sucked, but the natural armor, and reach generally made up for that. The breath weapon was also the saving grace at such low levels.

I should also add that we have two clerics as well. )

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

+6 via racial hit dice however, a centaur just isn't worth it IMO.

Ha.

I'm assuming that you are talking about lower levels. A centaur fighter (barbarian, ranger, paladin) rocks.

The +4 to Con eventually outshines two levels worth of hps; the +4 base attack bonus, +4 str mod, -1 size is more than a human fighter gets to hit at level 6; and the natural armor now stacks.

They get spot and listen as class skills. They get good ref and will saves, and +4 to Dex and +2 Wis (which helps offset the fighter level crappy saves.) They use bigger weapons. Their land speed is 50 (which is important because it's so hard to constantly fly now). They get a +4 to grapple checks.

Come on, not worth it? Bah.
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On a different note, trolls using weapons are silly.

The best part about natural weapons is that they don't get the iterative attack penalty. Trolls should be milking their two claw attacks + rend + grappling spellcasters.

A troll with a greatsword should be shot.

And seriously, fire and acid are nothing when you have a pocket cleric buddy with protection from energy.


The "I can't walk into town" thing is also overhyped. At high-levels, it just isn't a problem. Any party worth their salt can see the effectiveness of a troll as a tank and should sell their left wingnut to get the chance to buy the troll their magic items. (Especially a Ring of Sustenence and/or a Helm of Opposite Alignment.)

And if a DM is leading the party by the nose, forcing them into city adventures, well, luckily, that's not my DM.

 

[Will]

In other threads about awakened animals, I mentioned one of my theories...

That is, an animal HD is worth about 1/2 of a regular PC class level. So, say, a werebear is actually LA +6, but +3 is in the form of 6 racial HD.

 

[Votan]

IMX, the real killer isn't the LA, but racial hit dice. It's not so much that the benefits of generic race levels are hideously pathetic compared with (non-caster) classes, but coupled with the fact that many races with racial hit dice also have level adjustments, there's just too much delay in obtaining the later class abilities. There are, of course, extreme variations but a lot of races, such as half-celestials, half-dragons, half-fiends, or pixies can be made into very playable characters. At a net adjustment of +6 via racial hit dice however, a centaur just isn't worth it IMO.

For a fighter type the exception seems to be Dragon which with d12 HP, good BAB, all good saves and 6 skill points a level is okay compared to a fighter level. Loss of feats is annoying but this isn't terrible.

The Hound Archon, for example, with 6 levels of outsider isn't a bad choice if the character is above 15th level.

But you are correct. The best choices for a LA raceare ones with no-racial HD. This is what makes Aasimar, half-dragons and Githyanki/Githzerai interesting choices. Of this list, I'd mostly think that Half Dragons are the best choice as massive increases in strength have the best pay-offs for a warrior. An Aasimar is neat but the abilities are not well placed for a fighter.

That or convincing a DM to let you replace gaint levels with fighter levels . . .

 

[Shadowdweller]

Come on, not worth it? Bah.

Hrm. So maybe after looking at what exactly centaurs DO get (Full racial BAB, 2 natural secondary hoof attacks, darkvision, +8 str, etc) I might have made a little mistake.

So uhh...how about them Hound Archons?

 

[Selah]

When is LA worth it?

When you take the Saint template.

 

[Pax]

And unlike most shapechanging, a Lycanthropic alternate form does NOT modify yoru equipment. So if you're gonna play a werebear - get used to not wearing armor, nor wielding weapons. Possibly doable for a Monk, or a warrior type with the Vow of Poverty, but MUCH harder for others to pull off.

 

[Votan]

And unlike most shapechanging, a Lycanthropic alternate form does NOT modify yoru equipment. So if you're gonna play a werebear - get used to not wearing armor, nor wielding weapons. Possibly doable for a Monk, or a warrior type with the Vow of Poverty, but MUCH harder for others to pull off.

I was thinking of having the weapons and armor made for the hybrid form (which is the one that has the best advantages anyway). It can be carted around on a horse when the character is not actively adventuring.

True, this does mean that the character is vunerable to surprise in the right setting and changing into a bear won't always help.

But for LA to be worth it he has to average as good as a regular fighter. I think that a werebear could hit this criterion even with the 6 useless levels of bear.

The monk idea is kinda cool especially with the lycanthrope bonus to wisdom.