When to roll initiative?

[Quasqueton]

When do you roll initiative?

Two groups of people meet in a potential hostile environment. The friend/foe situation is unknown.

Do you roll iniative right now and "run" through an initiative count down, letting each side act or delay/ready or speak till it is evident no one is going to attack, then drop out of initiative?

Or

Wait for one side to take an aggressive action (draw a weapon, cast a spell, fire an arrow), allow that action to resolve in a "surprise round", then roll initiative?

Or

Wait for one side to take an aggressive action, roll initiative, and possibly have the prompting action actually take place *after* the reaction?

Quasqueton

 

[Thanee]

In a clearly hostile encounter, initative is rolled immediately.

In an uncertain encounter (neutral/unfriendly), initiative is rolled as soon as someone wants to act, but before any actions are resolved, unless the action cannot be perceived until after it is done, in that case the action would happen (basically like surprise) and *then* initiative would be rolled for.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Whimsical]

I believe that by the book you roll inititave when two groups encounter.

But I understand why the DM may want to not do this and allow some interaction before inititave is rolled. The problem is that there are people who will be annoyed that they can't ready an action in case someone attacks or if someone is able to react before they get off their attack even though they were the first one to declare their action.

What I do is when a non-hostile encounter turns hostile, I have everyone substitute Bluff/Sense Motive for Spot/Hide checks.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I do not think any hard and fast rule will ever do every situation justice or be fair to everyone.

If you always roll initiative at the faintest clue of potential danger and too easily allow readied actions, scenarios devolve into bizarre Readied Action Fests where you can get similar problems to not rolling initiative at all. It also becomes unfairly difficult for a Rogue to ever see a flatfooted target.

We generally roll initiative when groups first meet, and it is common for Delays and Readied Actions...but you never know for sure. We also often just reroll initiative if hostilities break out after negotiations fail. If every single character Readies "I attack any of them who makes a hostile move" then you need a means of resolving a number of people wanting to act first: The best mechanic available is to roll initiative.

The DM should do what he thinks is reasonably fair, even if it is imperfect. I personally do not think it is fair that when two hostile groups are aware of each other separated by a door, that the dude who opens the door can easily get hammered by multiple Sneak Attacks if he rolls poorly on Initiative. I do not like, but I have learned to live with it because it is close enough to fair, and I do not know how to d any better given the rules.

 

[Crothian]

Iwait until someone wants to take an action, then we roll inaitive. In the situation you describe there would be no suprise round as pretty muchy everyone is just waiting for someone else to act. I perfe to let players have a chance to role play an encounter if they want to instead of just jumping into the inititiative.

 

[Nail]

This one.

Wait for one side to take an aggressive action, roll initiative, and possibly have the prompting action actually take place *after* the reaction?

..after all, it doesn't actually happen "after".

Think of it like an old-time cowboy movie. The bad guy and good guy facing each other, on opposite ends of a street. Sweat trickles down the bad guy's face. Then, in an instant, the Bad guy reaches for his gun.

<Roll Init, Good guy wins>

The good guy gets to shoot first, even though the bad guy "started it".

 

[ThirdWizard]

This should really be a poll... vocal minorities will take over so it'll just become a 10 page debate with no conclusion most likely.

Just sayin'.

 

[Celebrim]

I roll initiative when either side in the conflict believes combat is about to occur, either because they themselves plan to take hostile action or they suspect that the other side is about to attempt something hostile. Normally, if one side tried to surprise the other by pretending to be friendly, I'd not worry about initiative until the combat round but I'd allow a Sense Motive check (opposed by bluff) to prevent surprise in the same way I'd normally allow a Spot or Listen check to avoid normal surprise.

The upshot of that is that while I generally call for initiative from the players, a player is completely in his rights to demand that an NPC/monster make an initiative check should he want to initiate the hostilities (or just threaten to initiate hostilities). Naturally, in this case the NPC monster would get the same sort of chance to avoid surprise that I would grant to the PC's.

This seems to work as well as keeping track of detailed hold/ready/focus actions, is a whole lot easier on me, and doesn't interrupt role play nearly as much.

 

[the Jester]

Think of it like an old-time cowboy movie. The bad guy and good guy facing each other, on opposite ends of a street. Sweat trickles down the bad guy's face. Then, in an instant, the Bad guy reaches for his gun.

<Roll Init, Good guy wins>

The good guy gets to shoot first, even though the bad guy "started it".

This is precisely the analogy I was going to use. Nail beat me to it, but I'll reiterate.

 

[jodyjohnson]

They roll initiative whenever the mental "combat music" starts. Initiative ordered actions stop when the "music" ends.