Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I honestly wonder how many Americans even know what the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is. Most people who know what it is are likely to be Anti-Semites or scholars.

In case anyone was tempted, do not search for this stuff on YouTube, because getting the resulting garbage completely out of Google's algorithm is a nightmare. (A Wikipedia search, preferably on a privacy-mode browser, is a lot safer.)

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

In case anyone was tempted, do not search for this stuff on YouTube, because getting the resulting garbage completely out of Google's algorithm is a nightmare. (A Wikipedia search, preferably on a privacy-mode browser, is a lot safer.)

I learned about it on the Omnibus podcast with Ken Jennings and notorious Bean Dad (kinda dovetails into this, I think) John Roderick. From the description:

Omnibus Episode 196: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. (Entry 1000.ES0905)

In which the chaos of Europe around 1900 produces a literary hoax that powers a century of anti-Semitism and conspiracy theories, and Ken shares his distrust of sports stadiums. Certificate #42869

 

[Umbran]

Right. I agree that it's really easy to use the trope subconsciously. My point is that it's also really easy to do it coincidentally and the subconscious has nothing to do with it.

Again - that you didn't intend to hit people with a hammer doesn't mean they aren't injured, and doesn't mean you can continue hitting people with hammers. Once it has been pointed out, you should stop doing so.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That’s the key issue: once informed you’re hurting someone, do you stop or continue? And I mean continue intentionally- someone who is absent minded might forget a term is derogatory. God knows I’ve forgotten the preferred pronouns of celebs and other high-profile people.

And I’m probably wobbly on people I only interact with online. If I misgender someone, it is NOT intentional.

 

[Undrave]

Almost like it's not a choice between what is right and what is wrong, but what is right and what is easy

(Like we can make fun of the shoddy worldbuilding and plotting all we want but that's still a hell of a line)

Which is funny because NOT playing Hogwart Legacy is easier than actually playing it!

 

[Parmandur]

Which is funny because NOT playing Hogwart Legacy is easier than actually playing it!

I've not been playing it for 37 years, no effort required.

 

[WitchyD]

Project Gutenberg
Hope this helps.

Also check out Standard E-books, while they don't have as much, their work tends to be nicer formatted for reading with ebook readers and programs: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/lord-dunsany


(Just passing through, I'm trans and such but I'm not active here so, uh, yeah! Mods are doing good work here.)

 

[Imaculata]

I really have no first hand knowledge of the game, but the articles I looked at made it seem like there were trans characters and character options for players.

The game lets you create a look for your character, and you are free to pick a male or a female voice, and if you want to be called witch or wizard. The character creator also offers a wide array of black hair types, which is something that doesn't get brought up at all. This is a detail often lacking in the character creators of other games.

And that's all they needed to do honestly. But they also added ONE really out of place token trans character, and that rubbed lots of people the wrong way. Understandably so.

 

[Imaculata]

We talk about Rowling being unique, because she ties support of her work to support of her politics and she's around to do it, but Card is kinda in the same camp, and therefore is also not a creator I support even though Ender's Game was an important book for me as a young gay kid.

And this is the case with any public figure. Any franchise you love, be it Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, or book series, or movie trilogy. Any day news could break about an author, actor, singer, film maker, writer, that suddenly reveals them as being a horrible person. Next thing you know, people are yelling that you are not allowed to enjoy X any more. Ban all of Michael Jacksons music from the radio, in light of the revelations, or you are supporting the pain he caused his victims. No longer show any movies made by Polanski.

I don't like being told what media I'm allowed to like. That doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic to your cause. But you are going to lose a lot of allies by making everyone who likes a thing, out to be a villain.

I'm not a Potter fan. I've only seen the movies, never read the books. If someone wants to run a Potter D&D campaign, let them. And let them have a thread about it on this forum.

 

[Maxperson]

Again - that you didn't intend to hit people with a hammer doesn't mean they aren't injured, and doesn't mean you can continue hitting people with hammers. Once it has been pointed out, you should stop doing so.

That’s the key issue: once informed you’re hurting someone, do you stop or continue? And I mean continue intentionally- someone who is absent minded might forget a term is derogatory. God knows I’ve forgotten the preferred pronouns of celebs and other high-profile people.

And I’m probably wobbly on people I only interact with online. If I misgender someone, it is NOT intentional.

Yep. I said in another post that an accident is just an accident. It's what you do after that matters.

 

[Immeril]

I really have no first hand knowledge of the game, but the articles I looked at made it seem like there were trans characters and character options for players.

And that's all they needed to do honestly. But they also added ONE really out of place token trans character, and that rubbed lots of people the wrong way. Understandably so.

While I agree that the character felt a bit forced/compulsory, the 'controversy' surrounding her name is somewhat far fetched. Sirona was a Celtic goddess connected to healing springs, while Ryan is a common enough surname of Irish origin, presumably originating from the Old Irish word rían, meaning water/ocean.

 

[Imaculata]

While I agree that the character felt a bit forced/compulsory, the 'controversy' surrounding her name is somewhat far fetched. Sirona was a Celtic goddess connected to healing springs, while Ryan is a common enough surname of Irish origin, presumably originating from the Old Irish word rían, meaning water/ocean.

I hadn't even heard the controvercy about the name, but now that I've heard it, that indeed seems far fetched. I just noticed it was jarring the way they inserted the character into the plot. Like, all of a sudden there's a female bar patron with a heavy male voice, asking us if we want our butterbeers.

There are good ways to represent trans characters and there are bad ways. This felt very heavy handed.

 

[TheSword]

I think the difficulty about this discussion is that you aren’t able to have an actual nuanced debate about the issue because the fact that JK is a terrible person driven by hate seems to have become a given. Even mentioning a well known, intelligent, political astute trans woman that I’m a fan of who didn’t think that, got me blocked. So really this entire conversation is just an echo chamber. Nobody who disagrees is going to give honest views, no matter how logical or balanced. We are seeing JK tainted by association because some of her views overlap with hateful people. By the same token anyone who asks a question or challenges an assumption also gets tainted by association… so obviously nobody with sense with challenge or question. There is no learning here. There’s no persuasion. No reasoned debate. It’s one of the reasons the issue is so polarizing. You can’t sit on the fence as has been said up thread. Every issue is do or die, so people who aren’t ready to make the leap entrench their positions and then we’re off to war. Or worse transphobia increases and folks who otherwise don’t have a problem with 90% of things end up on the wrong side. I don’t think it’s good for the LGBT community and I don’t think it’s good for politics in general. If you fundamentally believe discrimination against trans men and women is wrong, disagreeing about the best way of achieving that isn’t transphobia.

 

[BigZebra]

This whole debate very quickly turns into at Bush-like meme: "Either you're with us, or you're against us".
Even though I find this to be an interesting and complex topic, I have no interest in engaging in a discussion were that is the base line.
I support trans people but I also read HP for my kids.

 

[John R Davis]

It is a very complex topic. Hence the new Scottish Govt Law is turning into a mess.
Some legislation is required but not quite so rushed.

Also announced Some HP now on our new 50p couns so that'll add more oil to the embers.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

Except, of course, this thread exists because it isn't clear.

And that the boundaries for discussion of the subject is up for discussion is a good thing.

Still, the general framing of what opinions one are allowed to utter or not on a lot of subjects is pretty clear. And as I wrote, even if I personally may have different opinions, I have no problem with trying to express myself within those frames. I'm here to discuss roleplaying games, and try (usually with success, I hope) to avoid sensitive subjects where my personal opinions may lie outside the frames of accepted expression of thought here. So there are no problems from my side.

 

[Undrave]

And that's all they needed to do honestly. But they also added ONE really out of place token trans character, and that rubbed lots of people the wrong way. Understandably so.

Supposedly the character's model in the game files is labeled 'MrWoman' or some such...

 

[Gradine]

And this is the case with any public figure. Any franchise you love, be it Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, or book series, or movie trilogy. Any day news could break about an author, actor, singer, film maker, writer, that suddenly reveals them as being a horrible person. Next thing you know, people are yelling that you are not allowed to enjoy X any more. Ban all of Michael Jacksons music from the radio, in light of the revelations, or you are supporting the pain he caused his victims. No longer show any movies made by Polanski.

Some of these are pretty true, but again there's a matter of degrees of control, association, and support. Am I going to avoid any and all Star Wars properties over Gina Carano? Of course not. There's not really a direct line between me watching an episode of Andor or even The Mandalorian and the campaign to eradicate trans people. I do avoid MJ and Polanski (as much as the former hurts) out of solidarity and support for their victims, but I don't really think any Joe Consumer who catches The Pianist on Netflix or whatever is pro-rape. But every handful of dollars spent on HP books or stickers or scarves of whatever is a dollar that directly funds the campaign to take away many people's rights to self-identity, health care, physical safety, etc. That impacts me, directly, and I'm not going to sit back and passively accept it.

But as we are a free market society, and for as long as we are so, the only way we have to discourage bad actors in pop culture is to vote with our dollars. And encourage those who support us (or claim to support us) to follow suit.

I don't like being told what media I'm allowed to like. That doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic to your cause. But you are going to lose a lot of allies by making everyone who likes a thing, out to be a villain.

Any "ally" I lose for asking them not to directly fund the campaign to eradicate trans people was not an ally in the first place. Real allies don't tut-tut over tone policing

I'm not a Potter fan. I've only seen the movies, never read the books. If someone wants to run a Potter D&D campaign, let them. And let them have a thread about it on this forum.

I'm actually not opposed to there being a Harry Potter appreciation thread on this forum. Hell, slap a + in the title and I'll even steer fully clear of it. I've got my own + thread to talk about awesome magical school properties that don't directly support fascist activists and stochastic terrorism where HP talk isn't allowed, so I'd be remiss to not be happy to accept similar rules. Can't say I won't be taking notes though.

 

[halfling rogue]

It's okay to like J.K. Rowling.

 

[Gradine]

It's okay to like J.K. Rowling.