Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

[halfling rogue]

If it really isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling, then why have this type of conversation at all? Why the thread on whether the forum should or should not discuss her creation? No one is insisting that it isn't okay to dislike J.K. Rowling. Why should your insistence that it isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling trump other opinions?

 

[Undrave]

Any "ally" I lose for asking them not to directly fund the campaign to eradicate trans people was not an ally in the first place. Real allies don't tut-tut over tone policing

That kind of ally is looking for praise more than actually wants to be an ally.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

It is exasperating trying to find a non-shady copy of Dunsany nowadays.

For my Appendix N reading, I generally prefer to read them in the paperbacks of 60s and 70s that were floating around when Appendix N was first codified, so that part doesn't bother me.

Yeah, but most of the ways to read him involve either going to someone's rickety 1990s website that makes all the security plug-ins shriek about malware, or weirdly anonymous Kindle books that look like someone just put up a text file and are now charging $1 for it.

I'd like to have a professor of literature or something write a nice essay explaining the work and its context, maybe pull some good fantasy art that was once associated with his works and put it all together in something approaching the way we treat any of our other classic works.

At the very least, it'd be nice if Goodman Games, which publishes fiction periodically and name-checks the King of Elfland's Daughter in one of their adventures, put together a compilation. (Of course, if Joseph Goodman listened to me, I'd also have him publishing big art books with retrospectives of Erol Otus' and Russ Nicholson's work, so it's entirely possible I would bankrupt the company pretty quickly.)

If you go to Amazon, search the Kindle Store for Lord Dunsany Free, then change the Sort by drop-down (in the top-right in a web browser) from Featured to Price: Low to High, you should see a bunch of free Lord Dunsany novels. The formatting isn't great, I'll admit, but they're readable.

I'ma just drop this here, no particular reason, just another voice in the conversation...

I’m Willing To Throw People Under The Bus If It Means Pretending To Relive My Childhood

"You see, I’m entirely unique in that Dog Kid University was important to me in my youth."

I think that's where things get complicated for some people. When bigotry and prejudice meet rose-colored glasses. You see the same thing around discussions of AD&D 1e's problematic elements. We remember the thing fondly through the lenses of someone younger, not through our adult, presumably more nuanced and critical eyes. The key point is whether a person is willing to put in the work to reconcile what something meant to them then with what it means now, now that they can see those problematic things.

Homophobe. Wrote several articles and provides money and support to anti-queer groups. Was/Is a high profile opponent of gay marriage.

We talk about Rowling being unique, because she ties support of her work to support of her politics and she's around to do it, but Card is kinda in the same camp, and therefore is also not a creator I support even though Ender's Game was an important book for me as a young gay kid.

Sometimes I think about how there could be living authors I routinely support that are garbage people that simply know to keep their mouths shut about it. Though, increasingly, that seems a skill that those people just don't seem to have.

 

[Cadence]

If it really isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling, then why have this type of conversation at all? Why the thread on whether the forum should or should not discuss her creation? No one is insisting that it isn't okay to dislike J.K. Rowling. Why should your insistence that it isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling trump other opinions?

Wasn't the thread about expressing like about Harry Potter and not about liking JKR themself?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

If it really isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling, then why have this type of conversation at all? Why the thread on whether the forum should or should not discuss her creation? No one is insisting that it isn't okay to dislike J.K. Rowling. Why should your insistence that it isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling trump other opinions?

Allow me to illustrate-

1. I think that Miramax films made some amazing pieces of cinema, and I enjoy discussing City of God.

2. I like Harvey Weinstein. It's okay to like him, right?

Slight difference. Now, if you support the views of JK Rowling, then feel free to say so- that's your right, just as it is the right of others to form opinions of you based on your support.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I hadn't even heard the controvercy about the name, but now that I've heard it, that indeed seems far fetched. I just noticed it was jarring the way they inserted the character into the plot. Like, all of a sudden there's a female bar patron with a heavy male voice, asking us if we want our butterbeers.

There are good ways to represent trans characters and there are bad ways. This felt very heavy handed.

How would you have done it?

 

[billd91]

Sometimes I think about how there could be living authors I routinely support that are garbage people that simply know to keep their mouths shut about it. Though, increasingly, that seems a skill that those people just don't seem to have.

You can't act on information you don't have. And if they seem to be committed to hiding behind a false front of being decent in public, I don't really care what they think, because if it truly is hidden behind the façade, it isn't influencing or hurting anyone.

 

[Undrave]

If it really isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling, then why have this type of conversation at all? Why the thread on whether the forum should or should not discuss her creation? No one is insisting that it isn't okay to dislike J.K. Rowling. Why should your insistence that it isn't okay to like J.K. Rowling trump other opinions?

'cause Gradine is directly affected by the impact of the ideas JK Rowling is propagating.

Sometimes I think about how there could be living authors I routinely support that are garbage people that simply know to keep their mouths shut about it. Though, increasingly, that seems a skill that those people just don't seem to have.

At least if they shut up about it they're not making those ideas seem valid in the public sphere nor propagating them further. I'd rather a silent Lovecraft than a chatty Rowling, and that guy was too racists for the other racists.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Sometimes I think about how there could be living authors I routinely support that are garbage people that simply know to keep their mouths shut about it. Though, increasingly, that seems a skill that those people just don't seem to have.

There are definitely people, of all walks of life, who have views that you (or I) violently disagree with, but who know that there's nothing to gain from walking around fighting with people all the time. Better to get along with your coworkers or sell to your customers, or whatever, rather than pick fights that won't accomplish anything other than to make the world a worse place.

The folks who want to make a big stink about it online are either activists who think they can change minds (and hopefully they do so in ways other than just starting fights online -- otherwise they're just being performative for social media clout) or people who are trying to replace declining income with politically based replacement revenue. Or they're random anonymous weirdos who need a different hobby.

 

[halfling rogue]

Wasn't the thread about expressing like about Harry Potter and not about liking JKR themself?

I think it's odd to say you enjoy Harry Potter but hate JKR. Maybe that's me. I thought it was relevant in light of some earlier comments.

I read some gross comments earlier about how it's okay to like Lovecraft because he's dead and therefore can no longer financially profit, and that it's a shame Rowling is still among the living, or some such rot. Surely, if it is an acceptable opinion round these parts to wish a human dead so that they can enjoy her fantasy world better, it's acceptable for people to have the opinion that it's okay to like her.

 

[CleverNickName]

It can be a real time-saver. Ask someone "do you like J.K. Rowling?" and they will answer several questions about themselves, all at once.

 

[Cadence]

I think it's odd to say you enjoy Harry Potter but hate JKR. Maybe that's me. I thought it was relevant in light of some earlier comments.

I read some gross comments earlier about how it's okay to like Lovecraft because he's dead and therefore can no longer financially profit, and that it's a shame Rowling is still among the living, or some such rot. Surely, if it is an acceptable opinion round these parts to wish a human dead so that they can enjoy her fantasy world better, it's acceptable for people to have the opinion that it's okay to like her.

Lovecraft was seemingly a vile racist even for his time. Assuming so, why would anyone like Lovecraft the person? On the other hand, a number of people who think he was a horrible human being that no one should like are ok with his works and their derivatives.

One reason it might be easier to like the works of a dead author whose views one finds exceptionally problematic than it is the works of a similar live one is that the dollars spent on the former's works aren't being used by that person to spread those beliefs.

It feels like the mods would come down here on anyone wishing a person dead. Which post? If they didn't do so, I'll go report it.

 

[Gradine]

At least if they shut up about it they're not making those ideas seem valid in the public sphere nor propagating them further. I'd rather a silent Lovecraft than a chatty Rowling, and that guy was too racists for the other racists.

This is an important note. A famous person who is secretly a bigot but has carefully hidden that bigotry is, by definition, not actively campaigning to take away rights from marginalized groups, isn't spreading malicious lies about that group in order to turn public opinion against them, isn't lending their considerable social capital to support and amplify and validate other bigots, etc

That's what's different about JK Rowling; she is currently doing ALL of those things. And honestly? She's not doing a whole lot else with her time currently. So when you it should be okay to like her, you are implicitly saying it's okay for her to be doing what she's doing.

Which, news flash, it's not okay

 

[halfling rogue]

'cause Gradine is directly affected by the impact of the ideas JK Rowling is propagating.

So it's not okay to like JK Rowling because Gradine is directly affected by her ideas?

Sorry kids, no Harry Potter before bed. Gradine has been affected.

 

[Gradine]

I read some gross comments earlier about how it's okay to like Lovecraft because he's dead and therefore can no longer financially profit, and that it's a shame Rowling is still among the living, or some such rot. Surely, if it is an acceptable opinion round these parts to wish a human dead so that they can enjoy her fantasy world better, it's acceptable for people to have the opinion that it's okay to like her.

If you've got qualms about wishing other people were dead I've got some bad news about JKR for you

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I read some gross comments earlier about how it's okay to like Lovecraft because he's dead and therefore can no longer financially profit, and that it's a shame Rowling is still among the living, or some such rot.

Who said that?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Surely, if it is an acceptable opinion round these parts to wish a human dead so that they can enjoy her fantasy world better, it's acceptable for people to have the opinion that it's okay to like her.

Again, this is a basic logic issue.

Just because an opinion one way is acceptable, does not mean that the opposite opinion is equally acceptable.

This is blindingly obvious, but I will illustrate it with an example-

Zeno: I think that killing innocent children is a bad thing.

Achilles: HA! Well, if that's an acceptable opinion, then my opinion .... that child murder is totally awesome ... is acceptable too!

 

[Imaculata]

How would you have done it?

I would have not inserted the trans character at all. The game's character creator already supports trans options. That's good enough, and better than most games.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So it's not okay to like JK Rowling because Gradine is directly affected by her ideas?

Sorry kids, no Harry Potter before bed. Gradine has been affected.

Congratulations on not giving a crap about other people's feelings?

 

[Cadence]

So it's not okay to like JK Rowling because Gradine is directly affected by her ideas?

Sorry kids, no Harry Potter before bed. Gradine has been affected.

No Harry Potter books before bed, or no hearing praise of the person JK Rowling before bed?