Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

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Undrave

Legend
There's a 4-season British show from just a few years ago on Netflix and starring Bella Ramsey. It's very good and I highly recommend it.
that's The New Worst Witch we mentionned before. It's like Worst Witch The Next Generation as a young cousin of the previous protagonist goes to the same school.
 

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In the end, the primary question is about how we treat each other: You've been told this is a problem for some people. Do you ignore that, or not?

What we can’t do is limit difficult conversations to the kind and character of those least able to handle difficult conversations.

I wanted to highlight these two points because I think they are both very true, and also highlight the opposite ends of the issue.

I want people to be able to read ENWorld without feeling like they are being exposed to offensive material, or that anyone is promoting JK Rowlings beliefs. I also want to be able to discuss Harry Potter in terms of non-vancian magic systems, influences on modern fantasy, terrible world design, how my kids grew up liking it, etc.

I feel like there should be a solution that covers both of these things, but I still don't know what that is. Using the spoiler blocks for everything HP related feels clunky; if anything, it seems to draw more attention to the material. Is a "trigger warning" a useful method? If so, does it need to be in every post, or just the first one where you mention HP?
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
If you want me to be upset over something that is potentially antisemitic, you need to show me that it was deliberate.
I personally would stretch this a bit, and say that if I thought it wasn’t deliberate, I might take the opportunity to use it as a teaching moment so that there wouldn’t be a repeat. Bonus: a lot of times, doing that will reveal if it was or wasn’t deliberate.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I feel like there should be a solution that covers both of these things, but I still don't know what that is. Using the spoiler blocks for everything HP related feels clunky; if anything, it seems to draw more attention to the material. Is a "trigger warning" a useful method? If so, does it need to be in every post, or just the first one where you mention HP?
Speaking for myself, I think most ENWorlders do a decent job of policing themselves about intentionally posting things they know are potentially deeply divisive or hurtful without warning. They’ll either use spoiler tags (with a warning) as a default or will do so if asked.

The ones who refuse to do either? Well…that’s one reason moderators exist. If a pattern of such behavior persists, moderation escalates.

So I’m not certain a formal policy change is needed, TBH.
 

TheSword

Legend
To be clear, there is absolutely not a folktale tradition of Goblins being a legally and culturally oppressed group of second class citizens that nonetheless control the world banking system. It's blatant antisemitism and nothing else.

I think discussing these things I'd important if for no other reason so we can shine a harsh light of criticism on its many objectionable qualities. However, I think it's good to understand that any discussion of harry potter is going to involve those objectionable qualities and not spend a lot of time or energy defending the undefendable
I wasn’t defending anything. I simply shared a post from the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism. I mean I don’t know who you are or what your credentials are but if they say JK Rowling isn’t anti-semitic then I’m going to factor that into my thinking.
 

TheSword

Legend
I wanted to highlight these two points because I think they are both very true, and also highlight the opposite ends of the issue.

I want people to be able to read ENWorld without feeling like they are being exposed to offensive material, or that anyone is promoting JK Rowlings beliefs. I also want to be able to discuss Harry Potter in terms of non-vancian magic systems, influences on modern fantasy, terrible world design, how my kids grew up liking it, etc.

I feel like there should be a solution that covers both of these things, but I still don't know what that is. Using the spoiler blocks for everything HP related feels clunky; if anything, it seems to draw more attention to the material. Is a "trigger warning" a useful method? If so, does it need to be in every post, or just the first one where you mention HP?
The solution is not to post about JK Rowling’s political views which don’t seem to form any part of her Harry Potter stories. There are rules already in the forum that cover this.
 

Yup
Discuss in terms of game and don't put any politics in there. Plenty other places to discuss that.
I tried reading HPATPS but didn't get far.
Seen a couple movies.
It seems a very massively developed setting with is filled with RP inspiration and ideas but set too young teen for my aged tastes
 

Saracenus

Always In School Gamer
I was always uncomfortable with her goblin bankers, in the movies (I never read the books) as they seemed pretty close to the same imagery used by the Nazis and other anti-Semitic groups in Europe to "other" Jewish folk. My family was directly impacted by The Shoah, my grandfather (and his brothers) were a refugees from Germany and at least one of my antecedents perished in the camps (something my family recently learned). Still, I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

When she went TERF my relationship with the HP universe ended, that was enough for me to stop supporting it.

With the advent of the video game and the terrible tropes it amplified, my discomfort was confirmed and my ability to give her any benefit of the doubt evaporated. While she didn't make the video game, she approved it as she has for all HP expressions. She is not some naïve person led astray or taken advantage of. She is culpable for that work. She benefits from that work.

At this time she is inextricably linked with the art of HP. There is no separation. Yes, I will think less of you if you continue to patronize the HP world. If this makes you uncomfortable... well it should.

I get it, her works were a major part of the cultural zeitgeist and many, many folks have an emotional connection to it. It sucks that she has tainted it, but she chose to do this. I, for one, will not support threads about her or her works in some neutral way. For me their is no separation of art and artist.
 

Immeril

Explorer
I've been reading up on the blood lipbel material in the new game...it's pretty overt anti-Semitism, even if one could give a pass to the original book and movies as just representing common lazy tropes.
I guess it could be referring to blood libel, if not for the fact that the books contain many instances where blood was used in rituals (and not a single goblin ritual that I can remember).
Voldemort used Harry's blood to restore his body, Quirrell drank Unicorn blood, Dumbledore needed to spill his blood in order to enter the horcrux cave, Umbridge made a quill that uses the writers' blood as ink, Dumbledore made a blood pact with Grindelwald, ...
 

HaroldTheHobbit

Adventurer
As usual, we need to be careful about what we call "public".

EN World is privately owned. That owner chooses to allow people to come and go largely as they please, but that owner is not a government. The owner is fully within their rights to say you can't engage in some kinds of speech here, much as he'd be within his rights to say you couldn't toss around ethnic slurs in his living room.

If someone holds a party and tells you that being insulting to other guests is not okay, that' s not authoritarian or anti-intellectual. That's someone who wants his party to be pleasant.

The argument you present is why I pushed it back on all of you. Because, in the end, each of you has a decision to make about how you'd like to treat other people. You can make that decision on your own. You should make that decision on your own. Our not explicitly banning it doesn't mean you can dismiss the need to make the decision for yourself.

How do you want to treat your fellow gamers?

You are always responsible for your own behavior, even if we do not moderate it.
A question was asked. I gave my broader personal view on the subject, but explicitly said that I respect that this is a private forum where I am a guest. So I don't know what I did to deserve such a bad-faith interpreted answer with implications that I treat my fellow gamers bad?

As to your party analogy, if I was at a party where one guest was allowed to freely express their view on a subject, but I was being called insulting for expressing a different view on the subject, I wouldn't describe that party as pleasant.

It's a good thing then that this isn't a party but a forum for discussing role playing games, with pretty clear framing for what is ok to talk about.
 

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