Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I would have not inserted the trans character at all.

So, "this isn't how I would include a trans NPC" means "I wouldn't include them."

It would be more efficient and forthright to say that up front.

 

[Gradine]

So it's not okay to like JK Rowling because Gradine is directly affected by her ideas?

Sorry kids, no Harry Potter before bed. Gradine has been affected.

Well I am a pretty cool gal, all things considered

 

[Imaculata]

So, "this isn't how I would include a trans NPC" means "I wouldn't include them."

It would be more efficient and forthright to say that up front.

I'm not saying you should never add a trans character to your game. But most games that try, fail at the execution.

For example, Hogwarts Legacy also has a lesbian character; an npc who goes out of her way to mention her wife in her quest dialogue. It sometimes feels terribly obvious when a game is inserting a token character just to tick a box. And then I feel they just shouldn't have bothered. Just make a fun game, tell a fun story, and stop trying to tick boxes.

There are games that do know how to represent LGBTQ characters fortunately.

 

[Gradine]

I'm not saying you should never add a trans character to your game. But most games that try, fail at the execution.

Largely this happens when you don't actually have trans writers and designers working on the character. This is true for all sorts of people. How many times have you seen a black character in a video game and thought "has this person ever actually met a black person before?"

There's tons of smaller indie gems by queer creators with super awesome trans and queer characters. There's a whole bundle of them selling on itch.io right, I've linked them in the OP of my Magic School for the Greater Good thread.

 

[Umbran]

So it's not okay to like JK Rowling because Gradine is directly affected by her ideas?

Sorry kids, no Harry Potter before bed. Gradine has been affected.

Mod Note:
Somehow, you got the idea that it would be okay to make this personal.

You are done in the discussion.

 

[Imaculata]

Largely this happens when you don't actually have trans writers and designers working on the character. This is true for all sorts of people. How many times have you seen a black character in a video game and thought "has this person ever actually met a black person before?"

There's tons of smaller indie gems by queer creators with super awesome trans and queer characters. There's a whole bundle of them selling on itch.io right, I've linked them in the OP of my Magic School for the Greater Good thread.

I'm a big fan of Guild Wars 2, because in part it has very diverse representation. I do not know if they have trans writers, but they are definitely doing something right. They just write a compelling story that happens to include LGBTQ characters, without hitting you over the head with it.

So, big games are capable of doing it. If they hire good writers, and aren't just inserting token characters to tick a box.

The sad thing is, Hogwarts Legacy has a pretty good LGBTQ friendly character creator that I feel other RPG's could learn a thing or two from. But it is largely overshadowed by everything else.

 

[Gradine]

If I can say one thing in HL's and Sirona Ryan's favor, at least they hired a trans women actress for her VA.

 

[Undrave]

I think it's odd to say you enjoy Harry Potter but hate JKR. Maybe that's me. I thought it was relevant in light of some earlier comments.

I read some gross comments earlier about how it's okay to like Lovecraft because he's dead and therefore can no longer financially profit, and that it's a shame Rowling is still among the living, or some such rot. Surely, if it is an acceptable opinion round these parts to wish a human dead so that they can enjoy her fantasy world better, it's acceptable for people to have the opinion that it's okay to like her.

Everybody dies, it's not a matter of it, it's a matter of when. Saying “things will be different when Rowling’s dead” doesn’t mean I wish her to die NOW, simply that it’s inevitable that she will die one day and after that it won’t matter if you buy Potter stuff or not unless her estate continues her dubious work.

So it's not okay to like JK Rowling because Gradine is directly affected by her ideas?

Sorry kids, no Harry Potter before bed. Gradine has been affected.

Never said that, but rather that Gradine's opinion on the matter has more weight than mine.

 

[Maxperson]

Supposedly the character's model in the game files is labeled 'MrWoman' or some such...

I can believe that Sironia(sp) Ryan was not intended as an insult. That label behind the scenes, though, if true is not an accident and is really bad.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm not saying you should never add a trans character to your game. But most games that try, fail at the execution.

For example, Hogwarts Legacy also has a lesbian character; an npc who goes out of her way to mention her wife in her quest dialogue. It sometimes feels terribly obvious when a game is inserting a token character just to tick a box. And then I feel they just shouldn't have bothered. Just make a fun game, tell a fun story, and stop trying to tick boxes.

There are games that do know how to represent LGBTQ characters fortunately.

Largely this happens when you don't actually have trans writers and designers working on the character. This is true for all sorts of people. How many times have you seen a black character in a video game and thought "has this person ever actually met a black person before?"

There's tons of smaller indie gems by queer creators with super awesome trans and queer characters. There's a whole bundle of them selling on itch.io right, I've linked them in the OP of my Magic School for the Greater Good thread.

I am a cis person. So when I wrote Chromatic Dungeons and wanted to include diverse personalities, I reached out to those groups. The primary person/character in Chromatic Dungeons that I use to help explain rules is Alex (Player) and Faridah (PC). You really wouldn't know they are transgender personalities unless you really asked (they do use "they/them" pronouns though) because the people I reached out to for advice (the talented Liz Courts for the art, and Evlyn Moreau for sensitivity reading) pretty much said the same thing you are saying here. They are people first, and what makes them interesting is more than their identity. So unless it's important to the point, just present them like any other person.

I honestly think that if games that try keep failing, it's because they aren't asking the community that they want to include. Sure, no group is a monolith and you'll never get everyone to agree with what's Ok and not, but if you ask a lot of people, you can get a good idea what is generally going to be ok.

 

[Gradine]

Never said that, but rather that Gradine's opinion on the matter has more weight than mine.

It's also worth pointing out that I do not represent or speak for all trans women, to say nothing of all trans or gender non-conforming folx. Honestly, as a lower-middle class woman living in California (and the part that might as well be Narnia for as connected to the rest of the state or the world for that matter) I'm probably less impacted by her than a lot of people, but there are many people who I do know, and do care about, that are directly in the crossfire of what JKR is peddling. And if I've learned anything as American citizen these past few years it's not to take anything for granted.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

the part that might as well be Narnia for as connected to the rest of the state or the world for that matter

Man, you are not kidding.

 

[Gradine]

Man, you are not kidding.

Fun story; when I was a student at the University here I was doing check-ins to the dorms, and a group of foreign exchange students roll up. One kid steps out in sandals and a Hawaiian shirt. It is mid-August, and it is absolutely dumping rain. He says to me, in an almost comically thick French accent, "I thought this was California"

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

You can't act on information you don't have. And if they seem to be committed to hiding behind a false front of being decent in public, I don't really care what they think, because if it truly is hidden behind the façade, it isn't influencing or hurting anyone.

Yeah, you have a point. I also have anxiety, so worrying comes naturally to me.

At least if they shut up about it they're not making those ideas seem valid in the public sphere nor propagating them further. I'd rather a silent Lovecraft than a chatty Rowling, and that guy was too racists for the other racists.

Very true. Lovecraft doesn't have a Twitter account.

There are definitely people, of all walks of life, who have views that you (or I) violently disagree with, but who know that there's nothing to gain from walking around fighting with people all the time. Better to get along with your coworkers or sell to your customers, or whatever, rather than pick fights that won't accomplish anything other than to make the world a worse place.

The folks who want to make a big stink about it online are either activists who think they can change minds (and hopefully they do so in ways other than just starting fights online -- otherwise they're just being performative for social media clout) or people who are trying to replace declining income with politically based replacement revenue. Or they're random anonymous weirdos who need a different hobby.

It still boggles my mind that in the face of Disney money and success, Gina Carano couldn't just keep her views quiet. That saying harmful things was more important than success on that scale.

 

[billd91]

It still boggles my mind that in the face of Disney money and success, Gina Carano couldn't just keep her views quiet. That saying harmful things was more important than success on that scale.

Or Curt Schilling, Roseanne Barr, the list goes on and on...

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Very true. Lovecraft doesn't have a Twitter account.

....I've seen what's on twitter.

Are you sure he doesn't?

 

[J.Quondam]

....I've seen what's on twitter.

Are you sure he doesn't?

Azathoth, aka "The Muttering Lord of All Things", aka "The Nuclear Chaos", aka "That last amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity", aka "Twitter."

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Azathoth, aka "The Muttering Lord of All Things", aka "The Nuclear Chaos", aka "That last amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity", aka "Twitter."

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Very true. Lovecraft doesn't have a Twitter account.

Of all the authors to give an automated Twitter bot to, tweeting out quotes from his works, Lovecraft should probably stay near the bottom. (There are some great Mark Twain and Shakespeare bots, though.)

It still boggles my mind that in the face of Disney money and success, Gina Carano couldn't just keep her views quiet. That saying harmful things was more important than success on that scale.

whispers

There are a lot of celebrities who used Wisdom as their dump stat.

 

[Umbran]

There are a lot of celebrities who used Wisdom as their dump stat.

Somewhat relevant to this conversation - fame changes people, and usually not for the better.