Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
But I do think that the discussion of separation of the product and the people making said product is a good one to have.

Re: this sentiment

It seems weird that she would say okay to having trans character options in the game if she had a hand in it, and then put in blatantly antisemitic portions when she is known to speak out in support of Jews.

It's worth looking into how the broader trans community feels about this character. The reception has not been especially positive. The character's name is Sirona (shortened to Sir) Ryan. Sir Ryan.

As for the anti-semitism in the books/movies/game, I don't think for a second that JK Rowling is actually actively antisemitic. I also don't think for a second that the person/people who wrote the original lore and drew the original art for the Hadozee were actually actively racist. That doesn't excuse the regurgitation of lazy tropes steeped in a history of racism/antisemitism. As for the game itself, its former lead designer is very definitely anti-semitic, and that absolutely played a role in some of the dog-whistles that got inserted in the game (including the broader "blood libel" storyline)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I personally don't have any plans to run a Harry Potter rpg, but I do hope that on these forums it is still possible for someone to discuss a Potter campaign without a debate breaking out about Rowlings trans views every single time.

I have played Hogwarts Legacy, and yes its token trans character is very jarring. Apart from that, it is a really good game. It seems weird to me to hear people yelling about boycotting or pirating the game over Rowlings views, or the views of one designer. Hundreds of talented people are involved with making a big triple A game like Hogwarts Legacy; game designers, writers, concept artists, 3d modellers, animators, coders, level designers, and a composer. A lot of blood, sweat and tears go into the development of a game and it can take years. I'd hate for people to start chanting for a boycot of a game I'm working on for several years, just because someone on the team supposedly kicked a puppy.
 
Last edited:

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Even if you can draw parallels between the goblins of Harry Potter and old antisemitic pictures, that doesn't mean it was done intentionally or is even based on those old pictures. I don't believe that she intentionally designed those goblins with those parallels in mind. And I feel the same way about the guys from Star Wars.

When we separate racism from bigotry, we can also talk about the difference between intentional issues, and those that are unconscious, or in this case, part of a broader culture with biases. Rowling could very easily have absorbed and used the trope, without fully understanding it's origin.

"I didn't realize I was hitting you with a hammer," does not take away the bruises, or remove the responsibility to stop hitting with the hammer.
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
but I do hope that on these forums it would be possible for someone to discuss a Potter campaign without a debate breaking out about Rowlings trans views every single time.
Fun fact: that's how most trans people feel too!

It was brought up up-thread about how a whole generation of people grew up adoring H*rry P*tter. And of course they did! You know who especially loved it? Queer kids! By the busload! You think a group of young outcasts who never feel like they fit in weren't drawn to this property like a moth to the flame? We were her biggest fans! We were rooting for her!

It actually really sucks that we can't enjoy this stuff anymore. It really sucks that we can't share the joy and wonder we found in it with our children, or our friends who missed out.

But we didn't get make that choice. It was made for us.

By her.
 


It's Minecraft and it's already here.

How many elementary aged kids do you know that have that creeper hoodie? (The answer is almost all of them, at some point.) Even at its peak, Harry Potter was never quite so ubiquitous.

The current generation of doesn't have strong feelings about what their Hogwarts house is, but they definitely can tell you about Herobrine, an urban legend associated with Minecraft.

I don't know that many elementary-aged kids, but yeah, you make a point about how prevalent it is amongst that demographic. And walking through Target, there's Minecraft everything everywhere. Jason Momoa is starring in the movie, which bemuses me somewhat (he was excellent in Slumberland, though).

That would have been really interesting because Howard and Lovecraft were friends and frequent corresponds of each other. Heck, Howard's "Black Canaan" was so racist that it was pretty much banned in the the 70s from republication. Some scholars think Howard suffered from white guilt, being a southerner from the south and seeing how black people were treated, and thus wrote many of his black characters as sympathetic. I'm not a Howard scholar, so I don't know.

I'm fairly well-read when it comes to REH, and it's complicated. The language he uses to describe black characters is absolutely rooted in racist caricatures of the time. He does have some sympathetic black characters, but the same language is used for them as the unsympathetic ones. Either that or they described as "being less degenerate" or something just as repulsive.

No, but compare it to the Worm Ouroboros.

crickets

Once upon a time, it was mentioned in the same breath as the Narnia and Middle-Earth books. Today, it's almost forgotten.

Potter is still very popular today, but I think we've seen its peak and are unlikely to see it approach those heights again.

There's this whole generation of fantasy literature from that time right before Tolkien that is being lost - Dunsany, Eddison, Morris, just to name a few. A lot of it the authors Lin Carter was trying to preserve in the 60s with the Ballantine Adult Fantasy line.

IMHO, haters are grasping at straws and making incorrect connections to real life.
A shofar needs to be made from an animal horn and I admit that I can't make out clearly whether the in-game horn ISN'T made from an animal's.
Aside from that, the description of the goblin 'shofar' mentions that it was used during the goblin rebellion of 1612, which people are linking to the 1612 pogrom in Frankfurt. While the Fettmilch tensions arose in 1612, the resulting plundering of the Judengasse occured on August 22 1614.

See, this is why I feel discussion is important. Taken on their own, any one single part is fairly innocuous. It's when you add them together that it starts to feel a whole lot less accidental and more problematic.

Now, from the other side. I have to ask why someone Jewish would feel a resemblance to those same fantasy Goblins? Do all Scottish and/or 'large' people suddenly feel a resemblance to Shrek? I really hope not! Are there such people, of course, but see my previous answer...

It's not that I feel that I resemble those goblins (other than being short). It's that they resemble the harmful tropes and stereotypes that have been applied to my people for centuries, that are intensifying all the more now.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
I'd hate for people to start chanting for a boycot of a game I'm working on for several years, just because someone on the team supposedly kicked a puppy.
You do you, but I have to say that regularly using social media as a pulpit against treating trans women as women in an atmosphere where transgender people in general are already being targeted by cynical politicians is a bit more than kicking a puppy.
 


Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I'd hate for people to start chanting for a boycot of a game I'm working on for several years, just because someone on the team supposedly kicked a puppy.
If the teammate and person getting the bulk of the revenue made sure to put puppy-kicking content on their social media all day, every day, at some point, I hope it'd occur to you that you might have a problem.
 


Status
Not open for further replies.

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top