Where is my Freaking Mule?!

[Bluenose]

Where did I claim everything costing the same contributes to versimilitude? It's used as a baseline and reference so that I'm not just pulling numbers from my imagination when something is asked for... prices can fluctuate based on many factors but, IMO, the amount they fluctuate by and the reason is what sustains versimilitude in this area, having a baseline helps me more easily improv this. It would break my versimilitude if my character enters a shop one day and mules cost 3 gp's and after adventuring for a couple of days, he returns to find them now costing 20gp (especially if the DM has no reason and really did just pull the numbers out of thin air and had forgotten since last game). Now as a DM if I have a base cost for these things I will only ad-hoc the price a little above or a little under which can reasonably be accepted by most players without breaking their vermisilitude...even if there isn't a reason that mules went up by a coin or two except the shopkeeper wants to make a little extra.

I mean I guess as an argument I could claim that having wildly different prices for the same thing every time it's bought or asked about doesn't contribute to versimilitude either... and it would be assuming there is only one way to use your imagination for creating prices out of thin air which in the far end of the spectrum as the one you made above.

Technically you didn't claim anything of the sort. But that's what the D&D rulebooks give you, in general. So I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a book of mundane items would give you a price list with set figures, since that's what previous ones have.

As for the mules, the one you got for 3gp was a broken down old one that the seller didn't really think he could get money for, so he was delighted to get rid of it to someone. Since then, he's been told that the local baron is preparing a military campaign and will need a lot of mules, so he's reluctant to sell any to an itinerant adventurer without gouging him for as much as he can. Simple enough. Not that I'd normally expect do it that way, since I'd always try to keep a price record around, but a difference like that is less than I've used in some circumstances.

 

[Imaro]

Technically you didn't claim anything of the sort. But that's what the D&D rulebooks give you, in general. So I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a book of mundane items would give you a price list with set figures, since that's what previous ones have.

I think my point was more... don't assume why or how I would use such a thing for versimilitude.

As for the mules, the one you got for 3gp was a broken down old one that the seller didn't really think he could get money for, so he was delighted to get rid of it to someone. Since then, he's been told that the local baron is preparing a military campaign and will need a lot of mules, so he's reluctant to sell any to an itinerant adventurer without gouging him for as much as he can. Simple enough. Not that I'd normally expect do it that way, since I'd always try to keep a price record around, but a difference like that is less than I've used in some circumstances.

Again, I say good for you, but I think it's a slippery slope when people start taking the fact that they did something... really anything in the game and assume that is how everyone should be content to do things. We all run different games and for individual things, I'm sure we all amke use of different rules with different frequency, emphasis, etc. to achieve what we want out of D&D.

 

[Bluenose]

I think my point was more... don't assume why or how I would use such a thing for versimilitude.



Again, I say good for you, but I think it's a slippery slope when people start taking the fact that they did something... really anything in the game and assume that is how everyone should be content to do things. We all run different games and for individual things, I'm sure we all amke use of different rules with different frequency, emphasis, etc. to achieve what we want out of D&D.

You're the one who's using the word verisimilitude. My main point is that a book of mundane items with a price listed against them isn't enough for more than a false veneer of it. And personally, I find a game where human beings can be harder to kill than a rhinoceros doesn't provide much verisimilitude at all.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Again, what harm could it do? 3Ed had its Arms & Equipment guide. 2Ed had Aurora's.

Your examples are a far cry from a book that tells you how to use a 10-foot pole and how to herd donkeys.

 

[Garthanos]

Why would a bunch of mostly untested many mutually exclusive (though cool and creative) rules be useful out of WOTC. If they do that... they are failing to use the resources they have... Aren't they?

And why wouldn't this Unearthed Arcana be a perfect venue for third party publishers?

 

[Imaro]

You're the one who's using the word verisimilitude. My main point is that a book of mundane items with a price listed against them isn't enough for more than a false veneer of it. And personally, I find a game where human beings can be harder to kill than a rhinoceros doesn't provide much verisimilitude at all.

I'm really not getting the point of your first sentence... Yes I did use the word versimilitude, and I said that a book of mundane things with prices could help me maintain that better... I'm not understanding where the disconnect is?

As far as how much versimilitude a..." game where human beings can be harder to kill than a rhinoceros" provides... that fact is irrelevant... especially if in my campaign there is a reason certain humans attain that level of resilience. For me at least, versimilitude does not equal what could happen in our world. IMO, versimilitude is more dependent upon not breaking or disregarding the believability of events, things, consistency, etc. in the world you have created.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Your examples are a far cry from a book that tells you how to use a 10-foot pole and how to herd donkeys.

Who said anything about that?

The OP just wants to be able to buy the things in game and, for certain things, a few lines of rules (like, "Mules are exceedingly stubborn, so learn tricks at a negative modifier of -N") and a bit of fluff to help place some of the more unusual items within the game world, like Dwarven wind instruments...

Aurora's and the A&EG did that- ever buy a gnomish helm?- and added a bit of fluff.

So again, where is the harm?

 

[Mark Chance]

..." game where human beings can be harder to kill than a rhinoceros" provides... that fact is irrelevant....

Irrelevant and inaccurate. It's comparing an undefined type (human being) with a specific stat block (rhinoceros). Take into account that the appropriate comparison would be a 1st-level NPC class human with a rhino, and the "harder to kill" claim falls apart. After all, that rhino is the base for its kind, so it's only fair to compare it to the base human, who'd have 4-5 hit points compared to the rhino's 76 hit points.

In order for that same human to hit 76 hit points on average (assuming a 10-11 Constitution), he'd need to be about an 11th-level barbarian. IOW, the human would've advanced through 11 levels of a PC class as opposed to be stuck (more or less) as a level 1 NPC-type.

Now, take that same rhino and advance it by 10 HD just like you advanced the human by 10 HD. The rhino is still harder to kill, and by quite a lot.

 

[Lanefan]

And the rhino is, of course, just a mule ...er, donkeyhorse... wearing an elaborate disguise, under which is hidden all the gear it's carrying.

Which leads, indirectly, to asking: would a 10 HD mule be called an Ironheart Donkeyhorse?

Lanefan

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Who said anything about that?

The OP just wants to be able to buy the things in game and, for certain things, a few lines of rules (like, "Mules are exceedingly stubborn, so learn tricks at a negative modifier of -N") and a bit of fluff to help place some of the more unusual items within the game world, like Dwarven wind instruments...

Aurora's and the A&EG did that- ever buy a gnomish helm?- and added a bit of fluff.

So again, where is the harm?

You've missed the posts requesting detailed rules for the 10' pole and more than "a few lines of rules" for the mule then. I agree that a book chock full of INTERESTING items a la Aurora's and the A&EG would be....well, interesting. A book full of unflavorful 10' foot poles, mules, etc. would not be of interest to me, nor do I think you'll see any publisher jumping at the chance to put said book out. I don't see any harm in such a book. I don't see any harm in asking for such a book. I just don't think you'll see one, so the advice given by others in this thread is the best you'll probably get. That's all I'm saying.