Level Up (A5E) Where to put ability bonuses during character creation

[Lylandra]

For me: Either freeform, or bound to class. I hate limiting your player's class/species combos too much and unless you give the oddball (i.e. orc bard or halfling fighter) some other benefit, you will limit what many call "viable choices", especially as many players prefer low-to-midlevel play where you don't see a maxed out stat in a non-optimal combo.

In more detail: this is a very philosophical question. we've had lots and lots of discussions about racial ASI and ability caps and requirements in earlier editions. Let's just say it often descended into a cesspool of semi-political or biologistic themes, and debates about "but mah realism" in an otherwise utterly unrealistic game (from a scientist's point of view at least).

Depending on how you choose to design your game, you make some core assumptions about your characters:

- If you bind it to "race", then humans will be everything and other ones will favor one type of classes over the others. STR bonus? - more martials. INT bonus? All hop onto the wizard train. DEX? Congratz, you've won the ga- err, you got some flexibility but will most likely end up as a rogue, swashbuckler or archer. What you're basically saying is that race X has a much higher population of class/profession Y because of "their genes". All nature, no nurture.

- If you bind it to class, then the character will have that high stat because of training or because this individual has some inborn talent for using stat X, thus choosing the class. Nature or nurture, depending on the player's choice.

- If you bind it to culture, then said culture does value an expression/training of stat X over others. Which is all nurture, no nature. Mechanically, it is basically the same as having it be tied to class, but on a broader (and imo more limiting to the individual player) sense.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I voted culture. I'd be fine with race, but seems closed to what the community wants without getting unnecessarily complicated. I feel class should be where most of the fun chargen stuff should be.

 

[ThatGuySteve]

See, the problem is you can't have a scale that goes to 20 and then say you can't get there until you're at the effective end of the character's campaign life. And even then, to do it you need to give up getting other cool tricks you might want. I like feats and, among other things, this idea would functionally eliminate them.

It feels like more of a problem to hit the top end of the scale by 6th (fighter) or 8th level. It would make getting to 20 feel like more of an achievement. But I agree that you shouldn't have to sacrifice the chance of feats to get there.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I like feats and, among other things, this idea would functionally eliminate them.

Apparently you didn't read my other post, where I agreed with @vincegetorix that having both a feat and an ASI +1 at the ASI levels would get rid of the issue.

See, the problem is you can't have a scale that goes to 20 and then say you can't get there until you're at the effective end of the character's campaign life.

That really isn't the case, however. Roll the dice. You get a 16 or even an 18 and you can still have a 20 by level 4 or 8, neither of which are at the end of the character's campaign life with a game that goes to level 20.

Even if you started with a 14 (like MY PC in our main game), if you awarded both Feat and ASI +1, you could get an effective +3 at 4th and 8th levels. Now, this assumes the feat could be swapped for a +2 ASI if getting the higher score is that important to you, which even as a DM I would be fine with.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

you will limit what many call "viable choices"

I think this is the kinda of mentality A5E should avoid to enforce by simply moving the + around...

A character with an array, let use the above suggestions, 16/14/13/11/10 or a point buy of 32 without ASI added to the other 1st level choices, avoid all the problem of ''viable choices'': your Orc Blacksmith Wizard from a Nomatic culture will still have its 16 Int.

 

[TwoSix]

Just give every character 2 +1s ( that can stack) and a bonus feat at character creation. Come up with a cool new human feature that isn’t a 2nd feat.

 

[TwoSix]

no race/class ability boosts.

return to 3E point buy cost, but with the max or 16.

score 8 - 0pts
score 9 - 1pt
score 10 - 2pts
score 11 - 3pts
score 12 - 4pts
score 13 - 5pts
score 14 - 6pts
score 15 - 8pts
score 16 - 10pts

32pts available

have races define with extra flavor features

I thought that too, but if you just adjust point buy, you also have to adjust the die rolling methodology. Changing racial bonuses lets you keep both the current point buy system and the current dice rolling system.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Apparently you didn't read my other post, where I agreed with @vincegetorix that having both a feat and an ASI +1 at the ASI levels would get rid of the issue.


That really isn't the case, however. Roll the dice. You get a 16 or even an 18 and you can still have a 20 by level 4 or 8, neither of which are at the end of the character's campaign life with a game that goes to level 20.

Even if you started with a 14 (like MY PC in our main game), if you awarded both Feat and ASI +1, you could get an effective +3 at 4th and 8th levels. Now, this assumes the feat could be swapped for a +2 ASI if getting the higher score is that important to you, which even as a DM I would be fine with.

I didn't see that you were in favor of separating feats and ASIs, my apologies. That eliminates my biggest concern. I actually think lower highs would be awesome as a GM. However, as a player I would be irritated by what can only be seen as a nerf, and I suspect my players would feel the same.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I didn't see that you were in favor of separating feats and ASIs, my apologies. That eliminates my biggest concern. I actually think lower highs would be awesome as a GM. However, as a player I would be irritated by what can only be seen as a nerf, and I suspect my players would feel the same.

No worries. And I completely respect the "don't nerf my PC" camp.

Overall, I am thinking something like this: Remove racial ASIs. When you get an ASI normally, you get an ASI +2 and an ASI +1. The ASI +2 can be exchanged for a feat.

This potentially gives 5 more points by level 19 than otherwise, but by removing the racial ASIs, the net increase is only +2 (gained at 16th and 19th levels).

That would allow tier 4 characters even higher scores without needing magic items, allow feats for people who want them, and allow quick ability score improvements for the players who want to focus on that (at up to +3 per ASI level!). Even with a 14, a PC could have a 20 by level 8. If you roll your scores, you could get there much faster obviously.

 

[schneeland]

Previously my tendency was to tie the ASI either to background or split it between background, culture and race.
However, @vincegetorix has a good point - once you do point buy, you might as well scrap ASIs completely and increase the point buy budget if necessary.