Which Prc for the Paladin?

[Darklone]

I will respectfully disagree.

Me too with you , though my experience usually steems from levels < 12.

Even if the Paladin is virtually untouchable, doing, say, d8+2 (plus whatever magical bonuses) per round does not add up to much at high levels; a Paladin must spend feats on offense or her contribution is pathetic.

I read about many paladins with greatswords... their damage output isn't that bad and they usually still retain better AC than the barbarian. And for every paladin I've seen with Power attack and Divine Might, there were two barbarians with Power Attack, Cleave and Great Cleave as well as Weapon Focus in their favorite brick.

A Barbarian does not need to spend any feats on offense and can still dish out respectable damage; spending feats purely on defense is a viable strategy. So, yes, I do think it is fair to give the Barbarian Iron Will and not the Paladin.

Most barbarians I've seen had Power Attack, Cleave (sometimes Great Cleave), Weapon Focus, Improved Critical.
Most paladins I've seen had either the mounted combat stuff or the Divine Might stuff and later both (though some took the Eyes of Fury feat chain from KoK PG instead of one).

I'd say both classes have many "must have feats" and Iron will is rather low on the list, at least at low levels. Perhaps it depends on how many splatbooks or other books you use whether the paladin has more urgent feat choices or the barbarian...

The Paladin does look pretty good at very high levels. But at these levels your original contention is incorrect by your own standards. The Paladin is not the most "powerful" (defensive) fighter class. The Monk is.

Most of my experience with monks is from 3.0, so I can't really object... but I heard several times here on the board that paladins feature the best saves at high levels. Higher AC and more hitpoints speak for the paladin, SR for the monk.

 

[green slime]

Iron Will is IMO, a must have for most "warrior"-classes, except the Paladin, who can squeak by with a decent Cha mod instead.

 

[Lamoni]

Iron Will is IMO, a must have for most "warrior"-classes, except the Paladin, who can squeak by with a decent Cha mod instead.

The Paladin does look pretty good at very high levels. But at these levels your original contention is incorrect by your own standards. The Paladin is not the most "powerful" (defensive) fighter class. The Monk is.

My Dwarf Paladin will have a 26 Charisma when I reach level 12. (with armor of command and cloak of charisma +4) That means that I will have a +19, +15, +15 for his saves. Also, being a dwarf, he has an extra +2 against spell like effects and poisons. I would say those are pretty good saves, and at level 20, He'll most likely have saves of +24, +18, +18. If I add in Iron Will, it would be +24, +18, +20.

This is starting to get further and further off topic, but it is fun to figure out who has the best saves. I think that if you build up the Paladin so that Charisma is your best stat, you can easily have the best saves in your party. Since Charisma also helps with your smiting evil, lay on hands, and turning undead it is often the best stat to increase. Especially if you also have the divine might feat.

Anyway, we don't have a monk in our party, but my will saves are better than the cleric's and my reflex saves are better than the rogue's. At level 12, the gap will only get wider.

 

[Nifft]

Here are mine:

http://klimt.cns.nyu.edu/~fishman/DnD/prc.shtml


Specifically, look at:

Sun Knight

Moon Knight

Follower of the Golden Path

-- N

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Most of my experience with monks is from 3.0, so I can't really object... but I heard several times here on the board that paladins feature the best saves at high levels. Higher AC and more hitpoints speak for the paladin, SR for the monk.

I would consider SR part of the saving throw package. If you look at it that way, the monk's saves are clearly better overall. If you do not, the Paladin has a better Fort, the Monk has a slightly better Will, the Reflex saves are about the same -- very slight edge to the Paladin.

 

[Thanee]

Monks have good saves, too. That's right. And some other nice abilities (most noteably Evasion and Spell Resistance).

Still, for some reason, Monks just aren't as good as they look on paper. They have so many problems, that they just can't keep up with the other classes. Maybe that changed in 3.5, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Monks have good saves, too. That's right. And some other nice abilities (most noteably Evasion and Spell Resistance).

Still, for some reason, Monks just aren't as good as they look on paper. They have so many problems, that they just can't keep up with the other classes. Maybe that changed in 3.5, tho.

I suspect you would find a high level Monk to be a pleasant surprise. Some of their liabilities (e.g. so many stat dependencies) become assets at high level.

 

[Minsc]

This isn't the best PrC, but it works really well flavor-wise:

The Cavelier (Sword and Fist)

IDHMBIFOM, but IIRC, you get a ton of bonuses while mounted, which helps the Paladin class out a lot. Besides, you're a knight, that just is so kewl for a Paladin.


Somebody should make an Inquisitor PrC (if it hasn't been done already), based on the 2e kit. Those guys were nasty, and even better in the Baldur's Gate II computer game.

 

[The Souljourner]

Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes!

God I loved Minsc in those games. By far the most entertaining character I've seen in a D&D computer game

Gotta love the miniature giant space hamster

-The Souljourner