Which PrCl would you never want in your game? (part 1 - DMG)

[DungeonMaster]

Then the MT loses your precious "single equipment roster" value. Plus, its costly for the MT, since he has comparatively so few feats. The Wiz can afford to do it, he has bonus feats to spend as well.

This is insane. Now your arguing against your case. You have 2 feats more from being a wizard. The MT can tradeoff his item creation feats. It's not even funny anymore the levels of circular logic going on here.

 

[Storm Raven]

This is insane. Now your arguing against your case. You have 2 feats more from being a wizard. The MT can tradeoff his item creation feats. It's not even funny anymore the levels of circular logic going on here.

He could, but the problem is that you keep shifting your arguments. You say "but my MT could do this", or "my MT could do that", except that you have to make choices. You are arguing from the perspective of not making choices, having all options open, even after you have put forward your best build.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm not interested in your "fun". You made the challenge. It has been abundantly proven that your argument has lost. All you are doing now is whining.

You're not even following the rules of the challenge anymore.

I bought them via a spell book, which is much cheaper, and copied them into it.

You're making up the rules as we go. For piddly cash too. You must feel really backed against the wall or something?

 

[Storm Raven]

You do need rods or you don't pack the same offensive or defensive punch. Pure and simple. You can cast a wizard spell and a cleric spell but you can't cast both a wizard spell and a wizard spell or a cleric spell and a cleric spell. Get it?

And? I can cast two spells per round. For 28 rounds. You can do it three times. Are you sure you want to keep making that comparison? The rods don't help you that much, they give you a very temporary boost, that partially offsets the Wiz-Clr combination advantage, but when they run out, you are in trouble.

Really? It's um, going to get out of that in 1 round. Better think fast.

It's movement is slowed to 5 feet per round. It will take considerably longer than 1 round to get out. As long as it has a portion in the AoE, it's hampered by it, and then hampered by the spike stones. You should look up the rules before discussing them.

Um dude, I have more than enough spells to go beyond 6 rounds.

At one spell per round. And you, apparently, are spending your round's action to abandon your party and cast fly. How helpful! You see, by round six, you cast one spell per round, I still cast two. And my remaining spells are higher level than yours. Basically, by round six, you have the casting ability of a cohort.

So, just how valuable are you in round six again?

No more specifically you've contorted the leadership rules, and specifically avoided trying to reach the Theurge's saves, hp, and punch because you can't afford it with you and your cohort. And it's like pulling teeth to have you make a proper write up - with an example no less.

I've used the Leadership feat exactly as written. Your lack of understanding of the rules is not my problem. Your AC is better by a fraction, your saves are better by an inconsequential amount, and you are way behind in hit points, since between the Wiz and Clr we have more than twice as many hp as you do.

 

[Storm Raven]

You're not even following the rules of the challenge anymore.

I equipped the character using the standard rules of the core rule books. You had other rules in mind?

You're making up the rules as we go. For piddly cash too. You must feel really backed against the wall or something?

Look up "spell books" in the SRD. You will find it illuminating.

 

[DungeonMaster]

He could, but the problem is that you keep shifting your arguments. You say "but my MT could do this", or "my MT could do that", except that you have to make choices. You are arguing from the perspective of not making choices, having all options open, even after you have put forward your best build.

This doesn't make any sense. ?!?!?
I can't figure out what the hell you meant by "arguing from the perspective of not making choices having all options open even after you have put forward your best build".
What on earth do you mean by this run-on illogical sentance?

 

[Storm Raven]

This doesn't make any sense. ?!?!?
I can't figure out what the hell you meant by "arguing from the perspective of not making choices having all options open even after you have put forward your best build".
What on earth do you mean by this run-on illogical sentance?

I mean that, you have to make choices. Without making these choices, you keep all your options open. You keep saying "instead of this, I could do that", and switching back and forth in your argument to try to counter the fact that the Wiz-Clr is simply better than you at a lot of things. But you couldn't actually switch. You'd have to pick one way or the other and be stuck with it, and have a glaring weakness.

By the way, good luck with recruiting that cohort with your weak Leadership score (no Charisma bonus).

 

[Storm Raven]

I think that's abundantly proven. The MT is much much MUCH better than the straight caster. Orders of magnitude.

Think about this - you've convinced nobody who has posted in this debate that your argument holds water. Perhaps you should stop getting hot and bothered and figure out what that means with respect to your position.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I equipped the character using the standard rules of the core rule books. You had other rules in mind?

Yeah like paying for the goddamn scrolls like was set out back when we started this? Anything else is campaign specific. You're assuming you can find a wizard who will let you scribe from his personal spell book. You're assuming you get an equipped cohort who doesn't care you have a familiar and has all the crafting feats you want and will liberally allow himself to be a crafting mule.
You're just trying to avoid paying 2200 GP for a 6th level spell by the character creation rules. You're only allowed treasure dude, not friendly (and high level) wizards lending you their personal spell books for a day.
You could be from a backwater savage land with not even a large town.

I have to work now, and tonight I play D&D. Hopefully you'll actually clear up all your "discrepancies" by tommorow otherwise it's fruitless discusing any further with you because you have no compunctions making things up as we go along as you see fit.
And the scorpion is 40x40. Your cloud is a 20 foot radius. Do the math.

 

[MadMaxim]

Please, guys... Settle down and stop this pointless discussion...