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Which spellcaster should get which spellcasting system?

Tony Vargas

Legend
I'll just take a shot at sub-systems for the archanists:

Wizards are the classic Vancian casters. They pour over ancient arcane secrets in musty tomes, unlocking occult formulae too potent and complex for a human mind to comprehend, and impressing them, through great will and mental discipline, by rote, upon their all-too mortal brains - a fatiguing and dangerous process that risks both life and sanity.

Wizards should have spellbooks, and be constantly searching for spells to add to their repertoire. Knowing many spells doesn't let the wizard cast any more, and the number he can memorize at one time should be small, closer to what Vance had his magicians doing in the Dying Earth, an upper limit of 6 or 8 or so. But the number he can collect is unlimited.

There are 'lesser' and 'greater' spells, it has nothing to do with level, just complexity. A wizard can memorize three lesser spells instead of two greater ones. Memorizing a lesser spell takes a few minutes (1/level?), and casting one can be recovered from enough to re-memorize in after a Short Rest. Memorizing a greater spell takes longer (5 or 10/level?), and can only be done if the wizard has cast no greater spells in the last 24 hours, or has had an Extended rest.

Now to really leave Vance behind:

Spells can be memorized in different 'modes:'

Mastery: A mastered spell can be cast as often as desired, though only 1/round, for it's has been permanently impressed upon your brain. Only lesser spells can be mastered. A wizard must have known a spell for a long time to memorize it in this mode, it must by much lower-level than he is, and have been in his book for at least a full level, or a year or so if not adventuring, and may take days or months of study per spell level to master. PC wizards start with one spell permanently mastered (not available for re-memorization as a different mastered or prepared spell), this 'signature spell' is the basis for all their other magical accomplishments. If he wishes to permanently master another, he gives up the ability to prepare 1 greater spell, permanently, to do so. Mastered spells cannot be re-memorized.

Prepared: The true 'Vancian' memorization and default, a prepared spell is cast once then forgotten. Lesser spells can be re-memorized after a short rest. Greater spells after an extended rest, or if no greater spells have been cast in the last 24 hrs. The wizard can prepare 3 lesser in place of 2 greater spells. All spells can be prepared.

Ritual: Cast directly from the book. Ritual casting requires as much time as memorizing, and requires additional material outlay based on the specific spell. Only spells with such an additional material outlay noted can be cast ritually.

A wizard gains spells slowly as he levels, topping out at 1 permanently mastered spell, plus the ability to prepare 6 greater or 9 lesser (or some combination). The level of spells he can prepare continues to go up after he tops out, of course.


Is that traditional "Vancian?" No, but it's more Vancian than the traditional D&D 'vancian,' and it incorporates the innovations of the 5e wizard without making at-wills seem trivial.




Warlock: The warlock, rather than learn magic through time and study like the wizard, makes a perilous bargain with powers beyond mortal ken to wield arcane power, with or without any real understanding of that power.

Warlock 'Pacts' are esoteric occult bargains, they are complicated, with many conditions and provisos. Rather than go into great and varied detail about the conditions of each pact, Warlock's spells are simply divided up into three categories, based on how often he can engineer the conditions he needs to fulfill his pact. Aside from the Eldritch Bolt, the Warlock's spells are the same spells as Wizards learn, just gained in a different way.

At-will: All warlocks have an 'Eldritch Bolt,' an unformed blast of the basic energy associated with their pact (hellfire or icy starlight or whatever). This blast is what happens when the warlock calls upon the power of his pact without meeting any of the more complex conditions it calls for.

Lesser: In the course of a battle or other challenge, the Warlock can fulfill the conditions use each of these spells once. This is an abstraction of luck and cunning. The Warlock may need to perform physical action several times, get a drop of an enemies blood, stand in a shadow, sustain a specific injury, or all sorts of other minor, weird things to successfully call upon a given spell. The Warlock could also expend a use of a higher-level Lesser spell to 'improvise' a second use of one already expended or even to call upon some spell he is not normally entitled to.

Greater: Greater spells can only be cast at certain times, and never twice in the same 24 hour period. When a Warlock learns a Greater spell, he chooses a general time (usually day or night) when it is available.



Sorcerer: The sorcerer does not learn or use magic, the sorcerer is magic. Somehow, usually due to heritage, the life force of the sorcerer is a font of arcane power. A sorcerer chooses a basic energy type that represents the nature of his power. A sorcerer with a draconic heritage would choose the energy of a dragon's breath-weapon, for instance. Over time, by trial and error, a sorcerer learns to direct his power in different ways. It is rare for a sorcerer to gain the subtlety and skill to consistently shape his power into the spells used by wizards and warlocks, but it is not impossible.

Elemental Bolt: As long as he lives, the Sorcerer's arcane power flows through him, that flow can always be tapped, if tapped cautiously, or when the sorcerer's vitality is at low ebb, the result is a simple Elemental Bolt. The damage type is dictated by the sorcerer's choice of power when he was created. An Elemental Bolt can be used every round, 1/round.

Elemental Burst: The Sorcerer creates a cone, line, or other area effect of his power. Powerful sorcerers can do so a few times between short rests (10 at top level?). Lower level ones only once. Useable once per round, but two uses may be expended at once for a greater effect, such as channeling (below) a Greater spell. Expending two uses at once prevents recovering those uses until the Sorcerer has completed an extended rest.

Elemental Channeling: The Sorcerer channels and shapes his Elemental Bolt or Burst into some specific or refined form, improvising a minor effect (like lighting a candle instead of vaporizing it with a Fire Bolt) or an existing arcane spell related to that energy. The exact results are dependent upon the success of checks called for by the DM.
 
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ren1999

First Post
There should be one spell system for all.

Most spells should be at-will,
cast and completed during the caster's turn,
not provoking an opportunity attack,
chosen during an encounter as needed from the known list of powers,
no spell slots,
no preparing spells at higher levels for stronger effects,
the caster does not need to keep re-memorizing and forgetting,

burst powers should not be mixed with render-victim helpless powers
burst and render-helpless powers should be allowed 1 time as in either cast a burst power and ? or a render-helpless power 1 time per fight
 

jsaving

Adventurer
Wizard: Prepared Vancian. It feels right.

Cleric: Prepared Vancian. It feels right.

Sorcerer: Prepared Vancian. It feels right.

Warlock: Prepared Vancian. It feels right.

Druid: Prepared Vancian. It feels right.
 

Pickles JG

First Post
I do not have a clear view on what any of the classes out side Wizard & Cleric represent so I have no views on how they should get their spells. None of them have strong flavour or mechanics that transcend editions.

So I like the 5e Wizards & Cleric so far. I hope they both get a far more limited number of slots than in 3e & earlier as I believe that is one underpinning of their superness.

For the other classes I would like them to be mechanically distinct so that if you want to play a "Simple" caster you pick the warlock how has at wills with a couple of augments. If you fancy something in between this & the wizard you take the sorcerer who uses spontaneous casting. (for example relating back to 3e not because those specifically are what I want).

I would be happy if the "martial" classes worked the same way. The Fighter is the simple one with big attacks. The duellist uses light armour & flashy manoevres hard wired in. The Gladiator has a suite of limited use trick he can pull out. I just don't want to be in the position that if I play a character who hits people with swords it will be mechanically simple with few options.

Yeah way to rant about something OT :)
 

Wizard: Prepared Vancian + Cantrips (As in playtest)
Cleric: Spontaneous Slots (as in playtest)
Sorceror: AEDU with a theme
Druid: Spell success rolls w/modifiers for urban, rural, wasteland/desert, and extraplanar environments.
Warlock: Phase of the moon/roll of the dice/weird conditions + at will abilities (for instance only climb a wall while in shadow or pact boons triggering by killing enemies). Can spend hit points to cast spells where conditions not fulfilled.
 

Kavon

Explorer
In my opinion, if I have to take a class that is not the Wizard and restyle it into a Wizard to get a different-than-Vancian spellcasting system for that character, they did something wrong with the class design, since there apparently wasn't anything there for those two classes to make them unique besides their casting system.

I would prefer it if each spellcasting class has their own class features that gives them their thing, then you have a selection of different spell delivery systems to pick from, and have them be internally balanced with each other so you can use them interchangeably.

For example:
Type A: Vancian (the classic) - requires the most planning ahead (gives more of [something] to compensate)
Type B: Spontaneous (3e sorcerer style) - more flexible than A, but still tied to spell slots (gives less than A of [something] to compensate)
Type C: Spell points (older psionic) - very flexible, but still tied to a limiting system
Type D: At will + spell point enhancement (4e psionic) - basically the same as C, only you have full access to powered down versions (gives less SP than C)
Type E: At will + spell slot enhancement - similar to D, but with specific leveled spell slots (making it more similar to B)
Type F: AEDU style
Type G: Whatever else they can think of.

If this stuff stays decoupled from the actual classes, everyone can have their cake and eat it.
• Want everything to be Vancian (cause it feels right ;) )? Only allow the use of Type A.
• Don't like Vancian? Ban Type A from your game.
• Don't like spell slots? Only use the spell point types (or vice versa).
• Hate AEDU and at will casting in general? Ban Type D, E and F from your game.
• Don't care what your players are using? Let them decide which they want to use!

Am I insane for wanting this? For wanting everyone to be able to choose for themselves?
 

gyor

Legend
I need to point out wizards have at will as well in the form of cantrips. Same with clerics and,orisons. Still here's my view.

Wizards: Vancian with cantrip atwills

Sorceror: Spontanious spells cantrip atwills. See Pathfinder sorceror for inspiration.

Cleric: Cleric is what I call dual track, Regular Spells and Channel Divinity Spells, both limited spontasious.

Warlock: Special at wills from Pact type, no cantrips, maybe with hexblade options, more at wills, but few spell slots pre level.

Bard: magic like sorceror, but fewer slots and smaller spell list. All so song magic at will, although sustaining a song for long periods would require a constitution check or refreshments.

Paladin: No spells, just magical smite powers AEDU style, at will smites, encounter smites that stack on top of at will attacks, and special powerful daily smites.

Ranger: Most Rangers in D&D novels don't use primal magic, make it a theme or have a series of nature tricks a Ranger can choose from, some of which are primal magic, others that are mundane non magical training.

Druid: vancian, but not based on a spellbook, but rather herbal preperations for his spells. So while resting he'd prepare and gather herbs for specific spells he thinks he'll need the next day.

Psion: At-Wills based on choice of focus, such telepathy or Kinetics, with power points boosting the use of power.

Assassin: Small Shadow Mana Points Pool, with kills refreshing points within the pool.
 

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