Which stat for init?

[BobTheNob]

Initiative. Old nugget that it is.

Assuming we continue using initiative to resolve combat (a fairly good assumption) I sorta wanted to run something passed all concerned. Since initiative was first linked to stats it has been based on dex i.e. roll 1d20 plus dex bonus.

I get why. Dex = reactions, faster reaction speed = act earlier. No problem with that....

Except that I have played enough 4e combat (SO much 4e combat) to realise something else. Thats what it is intended to do, but in practice, initiative is more tactical in nature. The guy who acts first has the tactical advantage, he has the power to act or to delay/act whenever he likes. This means he can pro-actively strike, pro-actively control or reactively counter. This is where I start to get an issue with its association with Dex.

Tactical capability is not a question of reflex's, its really about smarts. My gut feel is that Initiative should be based on intelligence (or wisdom...even charisma if your half mad), not Dex.

Using the 3e standard, I find this extra ironic as dex is already a bit of a "super stat", it already contributes to
a) Missile to hit
b) AC
c) Reflex
(Note : This is alleviated somewhat in 4e as Int shares b&c, but Im not so sure that method will roll forward to 5e)

So, peoples take on this?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

D6, high roll wins. Done.

 

[tuxgeo]

Which PC do you want to act first in combat most often?

The highly perceptive Cleric? Make it WIS.
The highly agile Rogue? Make it DEX.
The lumbering Fighter? Make it STR.
The Wizard who is taking up the rear? Make it INT.

That's one way for you to customize your Initiative checks to suit your own tastes. (The game is probably going to stay with DEX because, you know, "unification.")
​

 

[Kynn]

Different classes could have different stats to determine their initiative bonuses.

But then each character would probably end up with the same approximate bonus and you might as well be rolling 1d6 anyway.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I've been using Wis for a while because it makes the most sense to me. It's how mentally agile you are, how good your instincts are, how well you use whatever faculties you have.

The main drawback is that Wis is always used for Spot/Listen, which can lead to overdependence on one ability score, but in practice, I don't see it unduly affecting how people play.

 

[tlantl]

I'm in favor of divorcing initiative from ability scores.

I'd like for weapon speeds and casting times to make a comeback. The guy with the smaller and lighter weapon should have an advantage over the guy with the heavy war ax or two-handed sword.

The higher level a spell is the longer it should take to cast the damned thing. This might help in making those alleged super powered casters eat some humble pie once in a while.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I'd like to see it based on character/monster level, instead of stats at all. Twitch reflexes are maybe about .3 to .5 seconds of natural reflexes, and the rest is all training and experience, at least for something sort of human. (I say this as someone who has reflexes almost as fast as a cat.)

Of course, I'd also like to see initiative simplified enough that it is possible to go back to rolling it every round--or at least every few rounds. Then you could allow Dex to give you an edge only on the first round.

If anything, Int and Wis will slow you down.

 

[Sunseeker]

Could just make it a flat d20 roll. I think there's enough numbers there to accommodate even the largest battles.

 

[Stormonu]

d20 makes a lot of sense, but the old d6 or d10 method - disconnected from ability scores - worked as well.

I'd like to see a return of group initiative, announcing your actions before rolling and rolling each round, TBH. Or at least have it discussed as a modular option.

 

[Mark CMG]

I've been using an Agility mod which is a combination of Dex mod and Int mod.