D&D 5E Which version of the Favoured Soul do you like best?

[gyor]

"Favored Souls

Favored SoulMortals who perform great services to deities, devoting their lives and work to the cause of their god or goddess, sometimes become the Chosen of that deity. Mystra's Chosen -- the seven sisters, Elminster, and others in the past -- are the most well known, but many other deities have Chosen worshipers. The Rotting Man, the hideous blightlord who corrupts and rots the Rawlinswood, is the Chosen of Talona. While some Chosen come into their status because of deeds and service, others come into the world with their deity's favor. These Chosen are known as favored souls, infants born as physical manifestations of a deity's power on Faerûn.

Being born a favored soul has both advantages and disadvantages. Like a cleric, a favored soul has access to her god's divine magic. Unlike a cleric, however, the magic of a favored soul is natural. As such, it is unlikely to be denied by her god. Because favored souls do not need to pray for their spells, deities don't need to approve or disapprove each and every incantation. This and the many divine powers of a favored soul make members of the class quite powerful. Despite these powers, favored souls are often hindered by a sense of inescapable destiny that surrounds their births. They didn't choose their paths and may not want anything to do with their religion. In this way, the powers of a favored soul can be a burden rather than a blessing.

Most Faerûnian deities have at least a few favored souls in their service. Some choose to have only one at any given time, but others spread out their favored souls among the lands in their worship. Rarely is there more than one favored soul in a given region, unless it's highly populated. Because they are often seen as direct signs from their god, favored souls rarely lead normal lives. The reason there are so few is because they create ripples in their travels, affecting everything they touch with their god's divine power.

A number of favored souls are known to exist among the many faiths of Faerûn. Braeden (DoF, LE female half-brown dragon half-human favored soul 10 [Tiamat]) is Tiamat's favored soul in Unther and the daughter of the brown dragon Slavin'Krath'Magaal (DoF, NE female fiendish juvenile brown dragon blackguard 4). She has received visions from her god showing something monstrous emerging from the Pit of Many Colors. She believes that this creature will play a crucial role in the upcoming battles faced by the Church of Tiamat. When she revealed this information to her father Malise(DoF), the high priest of the Altar of Scales (DoF, a hidden underground temple in Unthalass dedicated to draconic experimentation), he laughed at her, suggesting that she could never receive visions from the goddess. Now she plots with her mother to overthrow him, feeling that he has lost touch with the will of the Dark Lady.

The favored soul of Urdlen is a terrifying creature known as Curdle (CE male half-fiend spriggan favored soul 11). Curdle vaguely resembles a gnome in stature but is massively built for a creature of its small size and reeking of rancid flesh and blood. It has gleaming red eyes, long, bestial talons, and in its large form, batlike wings. Curdle stalks the fields near the town of Asbravn in the Western Heartlands, looking for things of beauty and innocence to destroy. The Riders in Red Cloaks have reported seeing the creature's handiwork on a number of occasions -- destroyed works of art and gems, eviscerated livestock, maimed and murdered pets, the occasional elderly couple frightened to death, and much worse. Recently, Curdle has gone on a dark rampage, stalking the edges of Asbravn at night, murdering gnomes and other townsfolk coming home from evenings of drink and song. Rumors abound that the creature has been sent on a destructive spree by its dark god for some hideous purpose. The events have become so dire that they have attracted the attention of Embrel Berrodwyn (NG Male Gnome Beguiler 4/Favored Soul 4 [Baravar Cloakshadow]/Mystic Theurge 10), the favored of the Sly One. Embrel has been busy at work crafting a grand gnomish illusion, but the murders have enraged him so much that he's put his great spell on hold. Townsfolk whisper of an approaching epic conflict between the two gnomish scions. All are certain that Asbravn will never be the same again"

That is from the class chronicles put out by WotC, which explained how the original Favored Soul fit into the Forgotten Realms.

Of course with the Spellplague and then the Sundering magic changed a lot, but the core idea is maintained, Favoured Souls are a subtype of Chosen in the Forgotten Realms.

And in no edition has Favoured Soul's ever gotten access to domains.

 

[MoonSong]

I was trying to find a way for the Favored Soul to be similar to the other sorcerer subclasses with regard to the extent to which each subclass gained major or minor features. I feel I'm not being clear about this; and I'm guessing it's due to the late hour here. (At my age, my mind is clearer in the mornings than it is at this hour of the evening.)

I'll try again, though:
First, if all Favored Souls have equal access to all of the same Cleric spells, then it's only their consistency of choice that differentiates the spells-known list of one from another. That would indicate to me that "it doesn't matter what they believe -- their spells-known only reflect their personal preferences, not their deities' preferences or spheres of influence."
Second, IIRC the Dragon Blood and Wild Mage and Storm Sorcerer mostly take spells from the sorcerer spell list. They have that in common. With full access to all of the cleric spells, the Favored Soul would no longer have that in common with other types of sorcerers, and would thus be an exception or an outlier in that regard.

How about splitting the difference? Make a single bonus spell that varies according to domain and then have the sixth level feature that varies by domain too?

Maybe also present premade spell lists mixing spells from both lists according to deity as suggestions? (A lot of the point of sorcerer is individuality, in fact the main problem of the other subclasses so far is that they don't leave too much room for individual choice)

 

[gyor]

I understand the attraction to domains, making different Favoured Souls feel different from each and more unique to a deity.

But taking Cleric Spells and Domains from Clerics is too much, and it steps on the toes of the Wizard Thuege subclass as well.

Between the Spell casting lists FS are hugely customizible, worship a death God, take Gentle Repose and various Undead killing spells, Worship Asmodeaus? Take a mix of necromacy, fire, fiend summoning, and mind controlling spells.

Worship Sharess choose enchantment healing, illusion, and combat enhancing spells like haste.

And the wings can be fluffed as you like. Usually for Favoured Souls you might go with white feathered Angelic wings, but for a Favoured Soul of Gond maybe you go with metal wings with jewels studding it.

Maybe the wings on a Favoured Soul look fiendish, that sound like screams whwn you flap them.

A Favoured Soul of Sune might have multicolour feathers, in a dazzling array.

A Favoured Soul of Sharess might have wings with soft cat like fur in tiger stripes or Cheetah Spots instead of feathers.

Maybe a Favoured Soul of Mask has wings of pure shadow, and one for Liera wings that are nearly invisible.

Favoured of the Gods for Besheba might manifest by bad luck for those you target or who target you for spells.

Favoured of the Gods for Ra might manifested as you eyes glow like the sun, blinding them for just a second when they were about to dodge an attack, allowing you to strike the blow you otherwise would have missed.

Maybe Favoured of the Gods manifests as a distracting sense of pleasure when an enemy casts a apell at you, causing them to fumble the spell.

Maybe a Favoured Soul of Lloth summons the feeling of a billion spiders climbing all over the target, distracting them

Maybe Tempest or Torm guide you to success when you uae favoured of the Gods.

Maybe Denier gifts you will a sudden moment of inspiration allowed you to by pass the targets guard.

 

[tuxgeo]

That is a feature, not a bug, Wild Sorceror, Dragon Sorceror, Storm Sorceror, Phoenix Sorceror, Sea Sorceror, Stone Sorceror are all Arcane Spellcasters.

Favoured Soul and Shadow Sorceror aren't, Favoured Soul uses divine magic and Shadow Sorceror uses Shadow Magic.

This brings up an issue I wanted to address earlier, but forgot: How necessary is it that the Favored Soul even be a subclass of Sorcerer? If it doesn't have the same spellcasting mechanic as the Sorcerer (arcane spells), then shouldn't it be more like a Prestige Class (or even a stand-alone class) than a subclass?

Favoured Soul don't even use the same naming conventions as other Sorcerors, and many common folk wouldn't realize that the Favoured Soul is a sorceror, they would be more likely to see them as a cleric or other spiritually revered figure. Favoured Soul's don't even view themselves as Sorcerors. ,,,,

If Favored Souls don't view themselves as Sorcerers, then maybe they shouldn't be created as Sorcerers in the game. (I don't have any decisive view on this subject, however.)

Seriously only some one well versed in Arcana or Religion maybe, would know a Favoured Soul is a sorceror (or that sorcerors aren't simply interchangeable with wizards).

Is it a good thing that the common folk don't know that sorcerers aren't interchangeable with wizards? This looks like a matter of taste to me: players who want sorcerers to stand out may find themselves dissatisfied with the current Sorcerer class and want the Favored Soul to be obviously something else, while players who find the current Sorcerer class sufficiently distinct from the Wizard class may wonder what the fuss is about.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I was trying to find a way for the Favored Soul to be similar to the other sorcerer subclasses with regard to the extent to which each subclass gained major or minor features. I feel I'm not being clear about this; and I'm guessing it's due to the late hour here. (At my age, my mind is clearer in the mornings than it is at this hour of the evening.)

I'll try again, though:
First, if all Favored Souls have equal access to all of the same Cleric spells, then it's only their consistency of choice that differentiates the spells-known list of one from another. That would indicate to me that "it doesn't matter what they believe -- their spells-known only reflect their personal preferences, not their deities' preferences or spheres of influence."
Second, IIRC the Dragon Blood and Wild Mage and Storm Sorcerer mostly take spells from the sorcerer spell list. They have that in common. With full access to all of the cleric spells, the Favored Soul would no longer have that in common with other types of sorcerers, and would thus be an exception or an outlier in that regard.

There are several examples of gods' kids rebelling against their parents in D&D, so I don't think it would make sense for the favored soul (which could be descended from the gods) to be hard coded to be the same as their parent. If the favored soul is favorably inclined towards a god, his/her spell choices will reflect that. Clerics are more aligned with their deities.

As for a subclass getting different powers than other members of the class, well, that is kind of the point of subclasses.

 

[tuxgeo]

Re: "Favoured Souls are a subtype of Chosen in the Forgotten Realms."

That explains why Elminster is so renowned as a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard, I guess.

 

[tuxgeo]

These are both good ideas:

How about splitting the difference? Make a single bonus spell that varies according to domain and then have the sixth level feature that
varies by domain too?

How about giving neither of the domain spells as "extra spells known," but giving both of them as "additions to the Sorcerer spell list for you?" That way, those spells are available to be known by the individual Favored Soul, but no individual Favored Soul has more spells known than other sorcerers.

No, dangit: I need to edit the above for sense. hang on. . . .
Edit to add: As mentioned upthread, many of the Cleric Domains contain Sorcerer spells. In light of that, maybe the Favored Soul needs to have its own, dedicated list of Sorcerer Domains that are made largely of spells from the Cleric spell list. If the Sorcerer gets as much emphasis as the Cleric in terms of having distinct spell lists (even if added to the Sorcerer list for the individual sorcerer), then the Sorcerer class might seem less derivative of other classes.
Edit again: That was poorly worded, wasn't it? Of course if the Favored Soul gets Cleric spells, then it is derivative of the Cleric class to some extent; but what I should have said, I think, is that the Favored Soul would then have almost enough differentiaion by faith, one from another.

Maybe also present premade spell lists mixing spells from both lists according to deity as suggestions? (A lot of the point of sorcerer is individuality, in fact the main problem of the other subclasses so far is that they don't leave too much room for individual choice)

Individual choice is good, agreed.

 

[MoonSong]

This brings up an issue I wanted to address earlier, but forgot: How necessary is it that the Favored Soul even be a subclass of Sorcerer? If it doesn't have the same spellcasting mechanic as the Sorcerer (arcane spells), then shouldn't it be more like a Prestige Class (or even a stand-alone class) than a subclass?

If Favored Souls don't view themselves as Sorcerers, then maybe they shouldn't be created as Sorcerers in the game. (I don't have any decisive view on this subject, however.)

At the core it was "divine sorcerer", and since the game is right now crazy about having flavors of sorcerer, there is little argument for it to be a separate class.

Is it a good thing that the common folk don't know that sorcerers aren't interchangeable with wizards? This looks like a matter of taste to me: players who want sorcerers to stand out may find themselves dissatisfied with the current Sorcerer class and want the Favored Soul to be obviously something else, while players who find the current Sorcerer class sufficiently distinct from the Wizard class may wonder what the fuss is about.

I don't think even sorcerers would self identify as sorcerers. There is nothing in them that would lead them to even be class conscious. They gain nothing from congregating like wizards and clerics do, they don't even resemble each other right now. Perhaps dragon sorcerers would be drawn to each other, but they would have so little in common with chaos and storm sorcerers, and favored souls that they wouldn't really claim to be "the same class". More so given that being a sorcerer is a -sometimes- happy accident, you cannot seek for a guild, or a church or an old master on an ivory tower to become a sorcerer. It is a happenstance, something that happens to you, so you wouldn't even be aware that it also happens to others -unless of course it runs in the family, but then the bloodline is what matters to you-.

 

[gyor]

These are both good ideas:

How about giving neither of the domain spells as "extra spells known," but giving both of them as "additions to the Sorcerer spell list for you?" That way, those spells are available to be known by the individual Favored Soul, but no individual Favored Soul has more spells known than other sorcerers.

No, dangit: I need to edit the above for sense. hang on. . . .
Edit to add: As mentioned upthread, many of the Cleric Domains contain Sorcerer spells. In light of that, maybe the Favored Soul needs to have its own, dedicated list of Sorcerer Domains that are made largely of spells from the Cleric spell list. If the Sorcerer gets as much emphasis as the Cleric in terms of having distinct spell lists (even if added to the Sorcerer list for the individual sorcerer), then the Sorcerer class might seem less derivative of other classes.
Edit again: That was poorly worded, wasn't it? Of course if the Favored Soul gets Cleric spells, then it is derivative of the Cleric class to some extent; but what I should have said, I think, is that the Favored Soul would then have almost enough differentiaion by faith, one from another.

Individual choice is good, agreed.

That would take a lot of room, how ever having a thread on suggested Favoured Soul domain spells could be interesting.

"In some cultures, only those who can claim the power of a favored soul may command religious power. In these lands, ecclesiastical positions are dominated by a few bloodlines and preserved over generations."

That is interesting and it makes me think of Mulhorand, because in Mulhorand only those descended from noble families, who we're unusually related by blood to the Gods and their servants, could become clerics in previous edition, so perhaps in 5e their Priesthoods are Favoured Souls and not clerics. It would make sense because of the ancestory.

 

[gyor]

It seems to be a tight three way race so far.

The FS with cleric spells and wings is in the lead.

Still when you break down the choices into their compentents and combined them 35 votes support an choice that has access to the Cleric spell list, 17 votes support domains instead.

38 votes support an opinion with wings, 14 votes support an opinion without.

Looking at these results and the actual poll numbers themselves I think that FS with Cleric spells and wings will be what ends up being published (and they put too much effort into the Favoured Soul not to publish it).

I just hope they add holy symbol profiency.