D&D 5E Which version of the Favoured Soul do you like best?

[tuxgeo]

Um you are getting something very wrong, either by misreading or not reading the whole description. Both fav sorcerer 2 and 3 allow you choose if you take a cleric spell or sorcerer spell

Here is the description of divine magic:
When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list, in addition to the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.

Yes, I did read the full description before posting. Thanks anyway. . . .
So if I create a Favored Soul Sorcerer PC named Grabal the Wondrous using the second or third version, that PC will be able to learn four (4) Cantrips and two (2) 1st-level Spells as a 1st-level character. Since this is a Favored Soul Sorcerer of the 2nd or 3rd version, Grabal gets to choose his Cantrips and Spells from the combined entries of both the usual Cleric spell list and the usual Sorcerer spell list.

For the same of creating an example, let's say he chooses:
CANTRIPS: Guidance, Sacred Flame, Spare the Dying, and Thaumaturgy.
SPELLS: Bless, Healing Word.

Each of those four (4) Cantrips and each of those two (2) Spells are from the usual Cleric spell list -- and none of them are on the usual Sorcerer spell list.
This is allowed according to the 2nd and 3rd versions.
Now, as Grabal the Wondrous continues to advance in further Sorcerer levels, he could continue to learn new spells of higher levels; and each time he does so, he could continue to take spells that are on the usual Cleric list but not on the usual Sorcerer list.
The 2nd and 3rd versions allow that; and if the player of Grabal the Wondrous wants to have that PC choose those spells, that can happen. It is allowed.

Of course, some other player could create a different Favored Soul Sorcerer PC who takes some Cantrips and some Spells from each of the usual Cleric list and the usual Sorcerer list; and that's allowed, too.

Read what I said again: I wasn't saying it was only allowed for a Favored Soul Sorcerer to take Cleric spells; instead, I was saying it was allowed for a Favored Soul Sorcerer to take only Cleric spells. The difference between those two statements lies in the location of the word "only" within the sentence.

Location determines what is being modified by the adverb "only": if placed near the verb "allowed," then "allowed" is being modified; but if placed near the verb "take," then "take" is being modified.

 

[MoonSong]

Yes, I did read the full description before posting. Thanks anyway. . . .
So if I create a Favored Soul Sorcerer PC named Grabal the Wondrous using the second or third version, that PC will be able to learn four (4) Cantrips and two (2) 1st-level Spells as a 1st-level character. Since this is a Favored Soul Sorcerer of the 2nd or 3rd version, Grabal gets to choose his Cantrips and Spells from the combined entries of both the usual Cleric spell list and the usual Sorcerer spell list.

For the same of creating an example, let's say he chooses:
CANTRIPS: Guidance, Sacred Flame, Spare the Dying, and Thaumaturgy.
SPELLS: Bless, Healing Word.

Each of those four (4) Cantrips and each of those two (2) Spells are from the usual Cleric spell list -- and none of them are on the usual Sorcerer spell list.
This is allowed according to the 2nd and 3rd versions.
Now, as Grabal the Wondrous continues to advance in further Sorcerer levels, he could continue to learn new spells of higher levels; and each time he does so, he could continue to take spells that are on the usual Cleric list but not on the usual Sorcerer list.
The 2nd and 3rd versions allow that; and if the player of Grabal the Wondrous wants to have that PC choose those spells, that can happen. It is allowed.

Of course, some other player could create a different Favored Soul Sorcerer PC who takes some Cantrips and some Spells from each of the usual Cleric list and the usual Sorcerer list; and that's allowed, too.

Read what I said again: I wasn't saying it was only allowed for a Favored Soul Sorcerer to take Cleric spells; instead, I was saying it was allowed for a Favored Soul Sorcerer to take only Cleric spells. The difference between those two statements lies in the location of the word "only" within the sentence.

Location determines what is being modified by the adverb "only": if placed near the verb "allowed," then "allowed" is being modified; but if placed near the verb "take," then "take" is being modified.

Just as well as it would be possible for a favored soul to take only sorcerer spells and just have cure wounds + empowered healing.

 

[MoonSong]

I was thorn between the 1st and the 3rd. In the end I didn't like the limited nature of domains, just the extra spells. Without extra spells -as that just isn't happening- the domains are just another straightjacket. I still like parts of the first favored soul -namely the proficiencies and extra attack- but I can live without them, more so since a lot of opposition came from the subclass "having too much"

In the end I can live with the newest version. It is the most efficient healer in the game, by having that role in the party there is the chance to choose and use some nice utility spells.

 

[gyor]

I was thorn between the 1st and the 3rd. In the end I didn't like the limited nature of domains, just the extra spells. Without extra spells -as that just isn't happening- the domains are just another straightjacket. I still like parts of the first favored soul -namely the proficiencies and extra attack- but I can live without them, more so since a lot of opposition came from the subclass "having too much"

In the end I can live with the newest version. It is the most efficient healer in the game, by having that role in the party there is the chance to choose and use some nice utility spells.

If you want a melee Favoured Soul go Elf or Dwarf or Lizardfolk or Tabaxi or a level of fighter. I kind of like the idea of a Tabaxi Favoured Soul using it's claws with Greenflame Blade.

 

[MoonSong]

If you want a melee Favoured Soul go Elf or Dwarf or Lizardfolk or Tabaxi or a level of fighter. I kind of like the idea of a Tabaxi Favoured Soul using it's claws with Greenflame Blade.

Well, it wasn't just melee, simple weapons include lot's of melee, but surprise also the shortbow.

 

[cbwjm]

I actually quite like the latest favoured soul. I'm not too fussed on the wings but I assume that there are enough players of the original FS from 3e that want the wings. I think I like it best without the armour and weapon proficiencies as well since I always found the 3e FS as just another kind of cleric and not that inspiring.

I could use the current FS as a stand in for the dragonlance mystic, although I might change the spectral wings to something else.

I also think that they should have limited the spell list to the cleric's instead of giving them the option of both the cleric and sorcerer list.

 

[MoonSong]

I also think that they should have limited the spell list to the cleric's instead of giving them the option of both the cleric and sorcerer list.

So far all archetypes have been additive, being the one that opens a can of worms would make this subclass useless as that would attract a lot of hate and no one would allow it. Designers are quite conservative when adding new stuff.

Besides not even clerics are limited to the cleric list, tons of spells on the domain lists are on the sorcerer list.Limiting favored souls to the cleric list only would make them less than clerics. Also remember that sorcerer is the full caster class with the least spells known, the chances for a problematic combo are quite quite low. In the end a sorcerer can only bring her 15 spells known to the table...

 

[cbwjm]

So far all archetypes have been additive, being the one that opens a can of worms would make this subclass useless as that would attract a lot of hate and no one would allow it. Designers are quite conservative when adding new stuff.

Besides not even clerics are limited to the cleric list, tons of spells on the domain lists are on the sorcerer list.Limiting favored souls to the cleric list only would make them less than clerics. Also remember that sorcerer is the full caster class with the least spells known, the chances for a problematic combo are quite quite low. In the end a sorcerer can only bring her 15 spells known to the table...

Well, I personally feel that the designers should perhaps step out of their comfort zone and mix things up a bit. Not everything needs to be additive, this is playtest material, they should have changed things around and swapped spell lists and got some feedback on what people think.

 

[Ketser]

@ Tuxego

Thank you for clarifying your actual issue with the divine magic feature in your second post. In the context of your first post, your statement about divine magic feature seemed misleading.

Still, i don't see why you have a issue with a favored soul sorcerer only deciding to take cleric spells. If the sorcerer wishes to solely focus on the more divine side of his/her abilities. Why not? You have the choice to go one or other way, or mix them as you want.

I actually don't get why a lot of people are wanting the favored soul to have melee focus. Because of the 3.5 class? Maybe then the issue is in decision of reusing the name, but then the 3.5 was an attempt to create a "divine sorcerer" and was melee focused only because being kept too close to cleric. But the game really doesn't need another fully armored, melee combat based divine character, we have enough of them already In this the 5e version is considerably better, because it allows to make a divine-themed character that can just stay in robes and casting from range. (And yeah the cure wounds spell maybe isn't the best in such build).

 

[gyor]

@ Tuxego

Thank you for clarifying your actual issue with the divine magic feature in your second post. In the context of your first post, your statement about divine magic feature seemed misleading.

Still, i don't see why you have a issue with a favored soul sorcerer only deciding to take cleric spells. If the sorcerer wishes to solely focus on the more divine side of his/her abilities. Why not? You have the choice to go one or other way, or mix them as you want.

I actually don't get why a lot of people are wanting the favored soul to have melee focus. Because of the 3.5 class? Maybe then the issue is in decision of reusing the name, but then the 3.5 was an attempt to create a "divine sorcerer" and was melee focused only because being kept too close to cleric. But the game really doesn't need another fully armored, melee combat based divine character, we have enough of them already In this the 5e version is considerably better, because it allows to make a divine-themed character that can just stay in robes and casting from range. (And yeah the cure wounds spell maybe isn't the best in such build).

The funny thing is that the class the is that the real Favoured Soul successor is the Paladin Avenger.

In 3e the Favoured Soul was a sorceror clone with a cleric spell list, but in 4e it was a paragon path for the Avenger class that got access to wings, which got merged with the Paladin class. The Paladin Avenger subclass even gets it's own wings by level 20 for an hour a day.

So you have a Sorceror type unarmed Favoured Soul and a Melee Avenging Favoured Soul.