White Wolf can take their Web Extras & Shove it!

[SteveC]

I personally dont care whether some are or are not free. All a person wants is to KNOW whether it is or not,a nd want the company to be up front about it.

The original author would have bought the book regardless. Someone else, like your self, might find the free extra to be that final insentive to buy the book, like some necromancy products. Irregardless, it should be advertised as its suppose to be.

Its like going to a resturant and the waitress saying a dinner "comes with" a sald, only to find out later its actually an extra charge. Not whether its done on purpose or the waitress made an honest mistake in brining it up really doesnt matter. Its how its presented, and how its rectified. And that doesnt mean WW should give it away free either.

I agree with you 100% here, which is why I divided my post into two different parts. I am sure that White Wolf will be very clear in how they advertise their products in the future if they continue this practice, however, since I think the situation is one of a mistake rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive.

To work with your restaurant example, I've been in a restaurant and been charged for something that was supposed to be free. It ended up that the manager comped the extra charge, the server apologized and ended up with a big tip...and I still go to that restaurant today. It took something that could have been a negative, and ended up being a positive experience in the end. I'd suggest White Wolf do the same thing, and just learn from the whole process.

--Steve

 

[RedFox]

Except, of course, they didn't advertise it. They stuck a note and an index in the book.

Yup. An advertisement would've been for a for-pay product, not a web extra. So no ad there.

This kind of thing happens all the time, with multiple companies.

But this thread isn't about other companies' faux pas, this is about White Wolf.

The fact is that companies should respond to reasonable grievances. The grievance about the phrasing is reasonable. The reaction? Not so reasonable. And there's nothing any company can do to satisfy people with unreasonable responses.

What's unreasonable about the response here? Bitching on an on-line forum about it seems as reasonable a customer response as can be expected. But hey, if that's unreasonable to you, then you're going to find any backlash at the company unreasonable.

If you go over the the WW boards, you'll see a reasonable response: an apology for the mixup and an explanation of what's going on.

Spin-doctoring isn't a "reasonable response." It's empty words to try to put the brakes on a backlash of customer response.

There's a difference between that and the way things are represented here, as a noble struggle for the priceless integrity of the human spirit.

Oh, please. Nobody's putting themselves up on a cross here and you know it. This is a thread about one customer's complaint about a shifty bit of bait-n-switch by White Wolf, not some crusade. It's extremely disingenuous to frame his complaint in such a fashion.

 

[prosfilaes]

At some point, you have to accept that organizations occasionally make mistakes

Why do people get in the express line with too many items? Because nobody calls them on it. An organization is going to make mistakes, but an organization that never gets called on its mistakes stops caring about making them. What's worse, a mistake ignored a few times can easily become habit, and is then very hard to change, and any complaint gets rebutted with "that's the way it's always been done". Better to respond to it the first time.

And I agree with the rest of the people here; the appropriate response is to satisfy the expectations of the buyers and write off any expenses as the cost of the lesson.

 

[Corinth]

EN World does not allow or condone the practice of copyright infringement. Please, everyone, do not use these forums to advocate illegal activities.

Statements of fact isn't advocacy. It is an option for action; whether or not it's legal doesn't mean a damned thing- it's still one of a handful of options to choose from.

 

[eyebeams]

Or change the advertising to reflex the reality. If it says extra or bonus material and no price, its still misleading. If they change it to extra material that didnt make it for only $4 available....its still fine.

There was no advertising. I note a decided lack of a response to this relevant fact.

 

[eyebeams]

Why do people get in the express line with too many items? Because nobody calls them on it. An organization is going to make mistakes, but an organization that never gets called on its mistakes stops caring about making them. What's worse, a mistake ignored a few times can easily become habit, and is then very hard to change, and any complaint gets rebutted with "that's the way it's always been done". Better to respond to it the first time.

To call them on it, you might consider, y'know, actually contacting the company. You can email them or post on their boards. It's pretty easy.

And I agree with the rest of the people here; the appropriate response is to satisfy the expectations of the buyers and write off any expenses as the cost of the lesson.

Which buyers? As far as I can tell, the majority of posters have come here with no intention of ever buying anything the company produces (or admitting to it). If you hate White Wolf that's your prerogative; it also means that you're not one of their customers or potential customers, which. And the original poster hardly believes the product was without value.

 

[eyebeams]

Yup. An advertisement would've been for a for-pay product, not a web extra. So no ad there.

Uh, no. Advertising web extras is also pretty common.

But this thread isn't about other companies' faux pas, this is about White Wolf.

Then that kind of blows the "standard of practice" argument out of the water, doesn't it?

What's unreasonable about the response here? Bitching on an on-line forum about it seems as reasonable a customer response as can be expected. But hey, if that's unreasonable to you, then you're going to find any backlash at the company unreasonable.

You mean aside from accusing the company of a deliberate deception?

Spin-doctoring isn't a "reasonable response." It's empty words to try to put the brakes on a backlash of customer response.

No, it's actual discussion of what's going on, which tends to neither support your suspicions or make them look infallible.

As for "customer response." You're not a customer, remember? You're a guy who hates the company.

Oh, please. Nobody's putting themselves up on a cross here and you know it.

Actually, I've been repeatedly told that the problem is not irreducible to any price, which is sure . . . precious.

This is a thread about one customer's complaint about a shifty bit of bait-n-switch by White Wolf, not some crusade.

By your own admission, you are contributing to this thread to discourage people from buying anything from the company as part of a personal mission and have no intention of buying anything from them yourself. Some might call that a "crusade."

It's extremely disingenuous to frame his complaint in such a fashion.

Am I talking about his complaint? His complaint is that he's disappointed that a book that he still feels was worth buying didn't have free web stuff even though there were two references to it. That's eminently reasonable.

Once you get to your "shifty bait-and-switch" business and other sundry accusations that The Man Was Out to Trick You -- well yes, I'd say my assertion that people are exaggerating is spot on.

 

[Rel]

Statements of fact isn't advocacy. It is an option for action; whether or not it's legal doesn't mean a damned thing- it's still one of a handful of options to choose from.

Corinth, you know very well that if you disagree with the position a Mod takes that you're welcome to e-mail them. Discussion about it in this thread is not allowed. So stop it. Now.

 

[Cam Banks]

Statements of fact isn't advocacy. It is an option for action; whether or not it's legal doesn't mean a damned thing- it's still one of a handful of options to choose from.

That wasn't a statement of fact, it was a suggested course of action and phrased in such a way as to be advocating its use. "Nothing that can't be solved by..." etc.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Voadam]

This kind of thing happens all the time, with multiple companies. I can sift through about 20 years of RPGs on my shelves and give you a whole bunch of promised products that were never released, newsletters that never got mailed and a whole panoply of promises that were made but for one reason or another, couldn't be followed through.

You have a whole bunch of RPG books that promise free bonus materials that never materialized or were later charged for? Can you give any examples?

Vaporware seems a different issue.