White Wolf viciously attacks everyone who roleplays for fun

[jaerdaph]

All I'm going to say is that with all the CRAP that is going on in the world today, if this is YOUR big issue, you have some serious priority problems my friend.

 

[kerakus]

Pretentiousness

Wow...um...you know...who cares?!?! I play D&D, I also play White Wolf's games, I also play Palladium. I enjoy all of them for different reasons. That original quote is, as others have said, not the attack it was made out to be and later comments by the original poster seem to indicate that he is indeed the only one who seems to have that extreme point of view.

So, who's the elitist?

Q

 

[Barastrondo]

If you are indeed the person who wrote those words, or who approved them, or were part of the team, you could explain to us why now, after YEARS of claiming they were no longer elitist; after years of WW people on the forums claiming that those who attacked them as pretentious were just outdated from the bad old Rein·Hagen days, why after all that.. WW chose NOW to publish what is without a doubt the MOST pretentious statement I ever heard from them?

Well, dude, you were the one quoting my "In 2004, Almost Isn't Going To Cut It" comment from RPG.net. In that thread, I not only explained that I didn't write those words, but also that... how did I put it... they did not represent the agonized cry from the soul of an artist trying to Make People See. And I think I finished with "IYKWIMAITYD," because some people had already gotten why it was that people who didn't believe those words with all their hearts and souls might have typed them anyway.

And yes, indeed, if you are the D&D player you claim you have attacked yourself. I would like to know why? Why did you feel the need to say that other games are just about roll-playing, why did you feel the need to insinuate that non-WW players don't know how to role-play, and should be pitied (but not despised---gee, great, thanks for that), and should be "helped" with their terrible disability of not being WW-players, so that they can go from making the mistake of "just playing for fun" to being educated in how to put pretentiousness ahead of fun in the correct WW fashion?

Hey, if it hadn't been for me persuading and encouraging players to stretch their boundaries, my last gaming group would have kept thinking that D&D was the ridiculous Diablo-esque constant struggle for power-ups that they'd experienced from other DMs. Instead, my wife and I got them looking forward to D&D, and admitting that it could be a deeper game with lots of intriguing character development. At least one of those guys was a die-hard White Wolf fan, too.

I don't know. I'm trying really hard to take your level of outrage seriously, but I can't — it's like railing that D&D is insulting its readers' intelligence by stating in the PHB disclaimer box that "the world is imaginary, and you are not your character." It's a paragraph or two that was crafted to sell the sizzle as well as the steak (or stake, if you will). It's a roll-your-eyes emoticon.

I live in the South, man. I've seen hate speech. This ain't it.

 

[MDSnowman]

In other news, does anyone know where I can get my very own ivory tower? I don't have one and I demand recompense for this injustice.

I'd settle for an Instant Fortress, that always freaks the locals out... "Hey wait we didn't have a surly warlord when I went to bed last night right?"

 

[Nisarg]

So, who's the elitist?

Q

They are, still.. apologetics and apathy don't change that.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

Well, dude, you were the one quoting my "In 2004, Almost Isn't Going To Cut It" comment from RPG.net. In that thread, I not only explained that I didn't write those words, but also that... how did I put it... they did not represent the agonized cry from the soul of an artist trying to Make People See. And I think I finished with "IYKWIMAITYD," because some people had already gotten why it was that people who didn't believe those words with all their hearts and souls might have typed them anyway.

I'm sorry, maybe its because i'm one of those "ignorant" D&D players who have trouble with pretentious terms, but I'm afraid I don't follow you here. It might help if i knew what the hell IYKWIMAITYD means?

Are you implying that the writers were forced to add those paragraphs in by management?
That they added it in without caring?
What?

Please explain why they might print something that offensive if they don't even believe in it?

I don't know. I'm trying really hard to take your level of outrage seriously, but I can't —it's like railing that D&D is insulting its readers' intelligence by stating in the PHB disclaimer box that "the world is imaginary, and you are not your character." It's a paragraph or two that was crafted to sell the sizzle as well as the steak (or stake, if you will). It's a roll-your-eyes emoticon.

There's a difference between that and this. The PHB thing is stupid, sure, but the WoD thing doesn't tell its reader "this is just make believe"; on the contrary its telling them "you are engaging in a work of art, that other, LESSER roll-players can't understand, and it is your divine mission to educate them..what you're doing must be more pretentious than fun, and you should look with pity on those who actually play RPGs for fun".
Besides warping the raison d'etre of roleplaying for anyone who actually believes it, it incites WW players old and young to be as famously pretentious as they have always been.

It is strange, though, and I woudl still love to know the answer to this, why WW has chosen to go back to being so utterly brazen about it now, after years of trying to hide their pretentiousness and claim it was a thing of the past?

I live in the South, man; in a state that had Jesse Helms as a Senator for way too long. I've seen hate speech. This ain't it.

Yes, that's hate speech on a whole other level. Great red herring there.
It doesn't mean that what WW published there wasn't stupid, and divisive, and hateful too.

Nisarg

 

[Stone Dog]

Dude, I've never seen the acronym before and I managed to work out "If You Know What I Mean And I Think You Do."

Why the hell is this thread so entertaining anyway? It is like watching the shopping cart duel in the Exalted CD. It is just so much fun watching people bash their heads together (sometimes on fire) for no good reason other than it is really funny.

 

[Jim Hague]

Nisarg,

While I agree the statement is drivel - it's pure marketing crap - I think you're going way overboard with this. If it's pretentious, then who cares? It's easily ignored. And since WW also produces OGL games and supplements, I seriously doubt they're going to kill the golden goose.

So take the statement for what it is - drivel - and chill, alright? Right now, it looks like the only person it's dividing as far as the hobby goes is you. And the more outraged you get, the less anyone's going to listen to you.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

We must root out this evil within our hobby!!


DEATH TO WHITE WOLF'S GAME LINES!

DEATH I SAY!!!!!

ARRRRGGHHH!!!!!!

 

[Nisarg]

Nisarg,

While I agree the statement is drivel - it's pure marketing crap - I think you're going way overboard with this. If it's pretentious, then who cares? It's easily ignored. And since WW also produces OGL games and supplements, I seriously doubt they're going to kill the golden goose.

So take the statement for what it is - drivel - and chill, alright? Right now, it looks like the only person it's dividing as far as the hobby goes is you. And the more outraged you get, the less anyone's going to listen to you.

I WAS outraged, for a long time, about the gall WW had in trying to claim it wasn't still pulling the same old pretentiousness.. now they've gone and admitted it, publically, and vindicated me in everything I ever said about them.

This right now is NOT just outrage, its my victory dance. Its the smoking guns. Its me saying "the prosecution rests its case".

Nisarg

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"In 1991, White Wolf Almost Destroyed the Gaming Industry. In 2004, 'Almost' Isn't Going To Cut It."
-ESKemp