Who does Steve Jackson Think He's Kidding???

[KDLadage]

If Pyramid Magazine's message boards are any indication of sales at all (being as how the crowd there is more GURPS than anything), then the pre-sales of the d20 Munchkin books will pay for the print run...

PS: Michael Morris: if I read your rant correctly, you are basically upset because someone created a supplement you do not like and are evedently not in the target audience for, for a game you do like, and then charged more for it than you would have been willing to pay, had you been in the target audience...

Does that about sum it up?

 

[jmucchiello]

Look at it this way --

such a book will not make much money in the retailer sales channel. most book stores in a 100-mile radius of me hardly carries ANYTHING d20 outside of Malhavoc or S&SS. This book will likely be sold fairly well through the mail-order channels. At 15.00 MSRP, this means that Steve Jackson is making - what - $7.50 on it, at most? Most mail order channels will have such a product at close to $10.00, making it a smarter buy.

Try $4-5 at most.

The distributor charges the retailer 60% of list. So retail gets $6 profit off of full price, the distributor nets $9. The distributor has to buy the books from SJG and SJG has to pay for them to be printed and shipped to the distributor.

That 40% that the retailer gets is how online retailers can give you 20% and 30% off.

 

[Xeriar]

Try $4-5 at most.

The distributor charges the retailer 60% of list. So retail gets $6 profit off of full price, the distributor nets $9. The distributor has to buy the books from SJG and SJG has to pay for them to be printed and shipped to the distributor.

That 40% that the retailer gets is how online retailers can give you 20% and 30% off.

The publisher gets ~40% of MSRP from the distribitor. Distributor gets ~55% of MSRP from retailer, you pay the MSRP.

When talking about outlets like Target or Sears, they pay closer to 50%, whereas gaming stores pay closer to 60%.

As for the size of print runs, I only heard that Shadowrun was doing runs of ~90,000 for supplements like Grimoire in its heyday, while AEG was doing ~10,000 for say, Way of the Lion.

It's a bit unfair to compare current print runs or total print runs between WotC and GURPS, mainly because GURPS 3e has been out for so much longer.

 

[DDK]

This is really odd.

Anyone who knows SJ Games would know that most of their products are fairly reasonably priced (at least, in comparison to other RPG books in my LGS they seem to be) and, moreover, are ALL SOFTCOVER!

I think I recall them releasing GURPS Basic as a hardcover for awhile but other than that, the myriad of GURPS books I have and that are on the LGS's shelves are all softcover.

They also have a decent page count.

Admittedly, they're all black & white and most of the art is very average but at 48 pages for $25 US, colour and hardback be damned.

All of a sudden, the core rules coming out in July are a freakin' BARGAIN at $30 for 320 pages of thick paper, well layed out with colour art throughout it... or maybe it isn't 'all of a sudden' and simply always was...

 

[Dreeble]

Hehe

Heya:

Munchkin is a **very** expensive game. The base game is $25. The first expansion is $17. The spin-off (Star Munchkin) is $25. The two Munchkin t-shirts are $18 each (one male, one female, one for Star Munchkin). The miniatures are $25. There's even going to be a level counter for $10. That totals about $150. Don't even ask about Chez Geek.

Well, when you put it that way, you make it seem like I spent a lot of money. Of course, I never got the T-Shirts (and I have Chez Dork instead of Chez Geek).

PS: I'll buy D20 Munchkin the nanosecond I see it. As someone above said (and as Igor always says), "IT MUST BE MINE!" I'm not sure what a level counter might be, but I'll grab that, too.

Take care,
Dreeble

 

[KDLadage]

For comparison: a typical SJG print run is (if I recall correctly) ~5,000 units.

 

[trancejeremy]

Actually, SJG has been making more hardcovers of late. Gurps Alpha Centauri is hardcover, I think. As was Transhuman space, (again, I think)

Personally, I don't like Hackmaster, so I find Munchkin d20 even more insulting (especially since Gurps is the king of Munchkin games).

Also, the pricing is actually not that bad.

We're starting to see most softcover 64 page books priced at $15 and $17 in some cases. So a hardback 48 page book isn't bad. Depends how big. I wouldn't be surprised if it's sized like a kiddie book.

 

[beta-ray]

I wanted to pick these up when they were first announced (enjoy Kovalic and thought some of the jokes were funny)... At the time, I believe the announced price for the books was something like $9.99... At the current price I am likely to pass unless I hear some REALLY good stuff about it. Though maybe I will take a peek at the MM since I do love those...

 

[Guilt Puppy]

I think the responses in this thread sum up why this book is so pricy, and why it's in hardback as well.

It's a niche product. I'd estimate at least half of the "RPG market" (in individuals, not sales) wouldn't get the joke (Munchkin? A Wizard of Oz license?)... Of the remaining half, not a large number of people are going to hear about it, and an even smaller number are going to care... There are a few borderlines, but most of the sales are from the "I MUST HAVE IT!" section.

This means they can expect low sales, which requires a low print run, which increases the cost-per-book. To ensure that the MUST HAVE ITS buy it, make it a hard-back so it really seems like a special item... It's sort of like releasing that leather-bound version of Ravenloft, except the people who'd buy the good version are (more or less) the only people who'd buy ANY version, so there's no point making a cheaper edition (aside from losing money.)

In other words, it makes perfect sense from both ends, as far as I can see. They'll make money on the product, and it'll be worth $15 to most of the people who would buy the book at all.

After saying all that in its defense, I have no interest in buying this book. I have no interest in bashing the book, or defending it really, but I just like sounding like a know-it-all

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Personally, I don't like Hackmaster, so I find Munchkin d20 even more insulting (especially since Gurps is the king of Munchkin games).

It is?