D&D 4E Who else is going to be a deserter when 4e comes out?

[Barak]

That's quite an exagerration. It has some stuff that's inspired by the Covenant books (most notably, the Giant race),

Actually, Giants comes second to the Oathsworn as far as being "based" on Thomas Covenant. And note that my comment was sort of in reply to "D&D is too based on Tolkien!". And I stand by saying that AU is just as based on Covenant as D&D is based on Tolkien.

 

[diaglo]

I still don't see how the existence or non-existence of a 4e D&D affects your ability to play with the books you have.

it is not the existence of the newer editions which affects play. it is the available audience for your older edition game.

it is harder to get "new" players if the products for the older editions are not available. it is harder to get "new" players if the people in the industry aren't talking about them. it is harder to find like minded individuals without having a lot of patience.

it took me 7 years to get my OD&D(1974) campaign back at the table.

 

[Storm Raven]

I dunno...

It does raise legitimate questions about the design process and playtesting that an overhaul was needed so quickly - it lends credence to the idea that the introduction of 3.0 was equal parts substance and hype.

Of course, no game system can be expected to survive contact with actual gamers...

That's a pretty niggling complaint. Federal agencies (like the one I work for) issue regulations on a variety of topics, which are usually a lot shorter and less interwoven than most RPG rules. We think these regulations are quite clear when we issue them, and yet they generally have to be revised every couple of years to clear up misunderstandings and deal with unforeseen problems. The only I'm surprised by in WotCs actions is the relative lack of updates to the core rules.

The revisions for 3.5 were relatively minor, mostly clearing up small things that caused unforeseen problems. They were mostly corner cases that probably didn't crop up that often in testing but did often enough when the game was released to warrant modification.

 

[Storm Raven]

I have an email from someone that helped develop 3rd ed. He basically said that that the WOTC buisiness people "drove" them to put out a revsion when they did. So it was money that pushed out 3.$, nothing else.

I'm sorry but an "e-mail from an unnamed source" qualifies as "worthless crap".

So, to revise your post to make it clear, your stance is "I have worthless crap that said the WotC business people drove them to put out a revision when they did."

 

[diaglo]

I'm sorry but an "e-mail from an unnamed source" qualifies as "worthless crap".

So, to revise your post to make it clear, your stance is "I have worthless crap that said the WotC business people drove them to put out a revision when they did."

i say the same thing about some replies to posts.

feces occurs.

still doesn't change what i'm holding in my inbox or my hand

IYKWIMAITYD

 

[JoeGKushner]

FR and Greyhawk are not terribly accessable either. D&D's got a lot of inbred concepts that just don't mesh with high adventure. Too many super-powers, not enough consequences. And of course, 3rd-party products aren't germaine to what I was talking about.

This is one of the things I meant when mentioning that Eberron is accessible. It doesn't have the backlog of history, both real and written, that other campaign settings do. It's also got more of an action pace to it, like games like Feng Shui or other quick action paced materials.

Exactly. It's inbred to hell and back.

But in doing so, it's become it's own thing. It no longer has to emulate other genres poorly when it can be it's own creature.

Obviously? Where did that word spring out from, Joe? You have some way to gauge all the folks that could become engrossed in D&D but are turned away by the over-the-top silliness of its conventions?

Nope. Just going from sales and popularity. If official sources are to be beleived, the new edition of D&D is selling stronger than ever.

Which, of course, assumes that all gamers are experienced gamers that can putz and tinker (and want to). Pretty fallacious. All the folks clamouring about how great it is that D&D has little resemblance to the fiction that might inspire someone to pick up a PHB are really kidding themselves if they think that's healthy for the growth of the game.

It has little resemblance to old, out of print fiction that inspired the game 30 years ago. The growth of the game is not in the hands of people who read Howard and Lieber in the 70's. It's in the hands of people who are reading high fantasy like Robert Jordan or Terry Goodkind or R. A. Salvatore.

Oh man, it really is inevitable with any discussion involving Eberron--the obligatory battery of movie references that have little to do with Eberron. D&D doesn't really resemble any of those movies, or anything else a potential gamer can readily identify with. Instead, it's modeled after the power-fantasy rush of video games that an RPG is too slow to compete with.

Long term I'd agree with you. What stops a GM however, from doing a campaign arc featuring an adventure built around the Mummy or any of the various Raiders movies? Nothing. And it's always been modeled after the power-fantasy rush. It's just now it's quicker.

 

[Eridanis]

A calmer and more respectful tone would be applicable here. Keep your comments to the subject, and not on each other. Thank you!

 

[WizarDru]

Instead, it's modeled after the power-fantasy rush of video games that an RPG is too slow to compete with.

As opposed to the power-rush of rampant monty-haul gaming from the early 80s? I'm not sure what point you're making here. You do realize that video games cover a pretty wide base and that you're painting with a pretty broad brush, right?

 

[diaglo]

As opposed to the power-rush of rampant monty-haul gaming from the early 80s? I'm not sure what point you're making here. You do realize that video games cover a pretty wide base and that you're painting with a pretty broad brush, right?

bah,

monty haul gaming existed in 1975. just read timothy kask's foreward to Supplement IV.

 

[Scribble]

4e would have to be some combination of extremely awesome or extremely backwards compatable for me to adopt it wholesale. Otherwise, I have so much stuff for 3.x, that I could see myself running it for a long time without running out of things to do.

Yeah that's how I was about 2e when 3e came out. I bought the new rule book, but didn't really care too much about it. It just sat on my shelf as part of the collection.

Then I actually took the time to read it, and it was actually "pretty neat." So I gave it a shot and liked it.

If 4e comes out, maybe that'll happen again? Maybe not.

Shrug.