D&D General Who is this made for (Not Beginners) - the New D&D Starter Set


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As a pretty experienced DM at this point the adventure is pretty good. It's a pretty solid update of Keep on the Borderlands, one of the original starter adventures, did you not like Keep on the Borderlands?
I like KotB quite a bit. I just feel more linear adventures are easier to learn, even if ultimately I enjoy sandboxes more personally.
 

I like KotB quite a bit. I just feel more linear adventures are easier to learn, even if ultimately I enjoy sandboxes more personally.

For experienced players, I'd say this module is actually pretty decent. It's a decent sandbox an experienced DM can do a LOT with.

Considering the cost of most adventures coming out today from WotC, this one won't break the bank. It has a lot of components that make it extra pretty as well.

My opinion on it in regards to experienced players is completely different than what my opinion is on it for New Players who haven't played D&D before. In fact, I'd say the both are opposite of each other (big no for new players, a really good deal for experienced players).
 


If you think about it, having a really good adventure in the starter set could be really intimidating for potential new DMs, at least when it comes to creating their own content. “I need a bunch of plot threads, compelling NPCs, a deep knowledge of setting lore and the ability to write purple-prose text box descriptions.”

Keep on the Borderlands demonstrates that actually all you need to get started is a hole in the ground with some monsters in it. I remember reading the original back in the 1980s and thinking “I can do better”. And I’ve been a DM ever since.
So you became a GM to spite the materials on which you learned?
 

Ok but...

1. You dont play 5e so is this just a thought excercise, a chance to poo poo on an excellent WotC product or what?

and

2. Nothing in the set forces you to play Round Robin style... its given as an option.
1. I do play 5e, just not WotC's game. You know this. And you know how influential WotC is, so anything they do shifts the industry and the community whether I like it or not.

2. This I will grant.
 

Well, no. Nobody said that.

There was a reading comprehension issue, obviously, but pointing that is not an accusation of badwrongfun, nor does it mean the people who didn't read it right are unintelligent or bad. But the text and board are pretty clear.

Just because someone doesn't say the word badwrongfun doesn't mean they aren't saying exactly that.

As I said, a lot of people have said I was wrong, but almost NO ONE has actually addressed the issues that I pointed out.

For example, the big one...Saving Throws. I've mentioned it several times (and if one actually HAD the book they can go look at the section labled Saving Throws, look in the glossary Saving Throws...those are the places where you'd expect to get the information and it's...just NOT THERE. In fact, it tells you the WRONG location of where to find it.

Does this bother anyone...no...except that they are experienced players.

They love to use their experience to say it isn't hard...but I think it's harder for some of those with experience to actually see it from the perspective of new players and NO ONE is really addressing that point.

Similarly, there is no real clear instructions on how to set up your character. Even the things that people have pointed out just were regurgitating what I already had posted previously at the beginning of the thread on what was told about character creation, but no one is addressing the real problem which is it never really says what to do with the cards. There is no real instruction (which is why my players had no idea they were supposed to get the cards in their hands and such).

Etc...etc...etc.

So, yes, LOTS of blame on me and my players with no one actually addressing the elephants in the room. If they had, perhaps they'd start to see WHY my players had problems in the first place and why that may be a problem later.

In my opinion, after reading this thread though, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the set ONLY puts information on the cards rather than in a central location where the players could see it that way as well. It doesn't really guide players on how these cards are supposed to work with the game...etc.

The actual parts in the rule book (as I said, combat and skill checks went pretty smoothly) were things they grasped easily. It were portions that were not touched upon as deeply as combat or skill checks which presented problems...and that includes basic character creation (and why even have that in the Starter Set rather than pregens. Sure, I love being able to create characters...but make it a basic set than...a Starter Set should be just that and easy to START playing).
 

On the contrary, those who are finding it difficult are experienced players like you.

Experienced players are a self-selected group of people who like to look things up in books. In good board game design, the rule book is intended to be read once then go back in the box, never to be used again. All the information you need to actually play is on the game materials. Which is where people who haven’t formed the habit of constantly referring to rulebooks will instinctively look.
When was this established? How is there a single, unargued "best practice" for board game design? There certainly is no end of debate regarding the same concept for RPGs.
 



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