D&D 5E Who raises the dead?

[devincutler]

It has occurred to me that in 5th edition, a paradigm shift has occurred with regard to what was once the pinnacle of the cleric's abilities...raising of the dead.

Transmuters of 14th level can now raise dead once per day. This doesn't supplant the cleric, but it basically makes the transmuter a direct competitor.

The real problem is with the Wish spell. In 3rd edition wizards and sorcerers could use Wish to raise the dead, but not resurrect and it cost 5,000 XP.'

In 5th edition, a Wish spell can duplicate resurrection for no material component cost and no XP cost. No cost, in fact, of any kind.

This means, at high level, wizards are the premiere resurrectors. There's simply no reason for a cleric to ever take the spell or use it, given that it costs a lot of gold pieces.

I have a problem with this. Do you? If so, what should be done? Should there be some penalty for casting Wish? Or should it only duplicate arcane spells?

 

[Radaceus]

Again they need to spend 8 hours to make a Transmuter's Stone, it is destroyed when used to Restore Life. And cannot be remade until after a long rest. So if the party Wizard(Transmuter) is using her stone to do this, she is giving up her main asset; not a worthwhile expenditure during an adventure, more like a last resort...

Where as a Cleric of 14th Level has 4 spell slots of 5th or higher, can Revivify x6, Raise dead x3, and Resurrect x1, all in the same span of time that the wizard does his one Restore Life...

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

You seem to miss the point that the transmuter needs to be level 14 to be capable of doing something that a cleric can do at level 9.

Worrying about Wish changing the balance of abilities really isn't an issue in actual play because the cleric has been raising people for many levels before the Wizard can cast Wish.

The majority of games don't reach 17th level, so its never a problem.

However, why would it be an issue anyway? Do you believe that raising the dead should be solely a divine thing?

 

[mellored]

Cleric can revivify at level 5.

But no, they arn't the only ones who can do it anymore. Bards, paladins, druids, can also bring people back to life.

This is intentional. So you aren't "required" to have a cleric in the party.


That said, if you think it's too easy to come back to life, go ahead and add a penalty.

 

[Ashrym]

An epic tier wizard or sorcerer being capable of using their most powerful ability that's can be used once per day to resurrect a character when other classes have been bringing back the dead for a very long time and multiple times per day and also keep the most powerful abilities available is a non-issue.

No group is going to use the philosopher's stone or wish spell that way except in rare circumstances because the other options make more sense. It sounds like a niche preconception when one of the benefits of 5e is in not having a need for a specific class.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I have a problem with this. Do you? If so, what should be done? Should there be some penalty for casting Wish? Or should it only duplicate arcane spells?

I'm fine with it. Level 17+ is such a small part of the game, and an even smaller part of the world as a whole, that the ability to raise the dead does not meaningfully alter the status quo.

 

[devincutler]

No group is going to use the philosopher's stone or wish spell that way except in rare circumstances because the other options make more sense. It sounds like a niche preconception when one of the benefits of 5e is in not having a need for a specific class.

I don't understand why you feel this way. Are you saying a group is going to be fine spending 10,000 gp and an hour for a Resurrection when a Wish can do it for free for a single action? Really?

 

[devincutler]

I'm fine with it. Level 17+ is such a small part of the game, and an even smaller part of the world as a whole, that the ability to raise the dead does not meaningfully alter the status quo.

It's fine until you reach that level, where it does matter. I know most campaigns don't reach that level, but it seems to me there should be considerations of balance even then.

 

[devincutler]

Again they need to spend 8 hours to make a Transmuter's Stone, it is destroyed when used to Restore Life. And cannot be remade until after a long rest. So if the party Wizard(Transmuter) is using her stone to do this, she is giving up her main asset; not a worthwhile expenditure during an adventure, more like a last resort...

Where as a Cleric of 14th Level has 4 spell slots of 5th or higher, can Revivify x6, Raise dead x3, and Resurrect x1, all in the same span of time that the wizard does his one Restore Life...

You do understand that the cleric also pays gold pieces for all of those spells and they take a long time to cast...right?

Yes, in the heat of combat a Wish might not be used. But given the Wish can duplicate a Resurrection, so you have 100 years to revive people, it all but guarantees that all PCs are revived for free all the time.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It's fine until you reach that level, where it does matter. I know most campaigns don't reach that level, but it seems to me there should be considerations of balance even then.

The major consideration is that, by the time you reach level 17, there's nothing in the world that can threaten you. From the time you get there, until the end of the campaign, is what? Five sessions, maybe?

The unlikeliness of anyone dying during that time, in a manner that can't be fixed trivially with a 3rd level spell, makes the supremacy of Wish kind of pointless. Wish is flat-out better than Resurrection, in much the same way that Teleport is better than Dimension Door. When you get to high levels, your tools become way more efficient. That's just how it goes.

I mean, if you're worried about the mere 1000 GP that it takes to cast the spell, then keep in mind that a CR 17 monster is supposed to have thousands of GP, or hundreds of PP. Cash isn't supposed to be a meaningful limitation on Resurrection, by the time you get to level 17.