Why all the Second Edition Haters?

[Zappo]

I'd NEVER run 2E again unless I simply had no access to any other ruleset for D&D.

Y'know, I don't want to think too hard about it, but I strongly suspect that I'd never run 2E again even if I had no access to any other ruleset for D&D. I think that playing 3E by memory and making up whatever I can't remember would still work better than 2E.
Playing 2E, that I could do if the campaign really interests me, but if I am deciding the system, that decision isn't going to be 2E.

 

[milotha]

I really enjoyed the 2ed games I was in. As for the rules, other than the really basic rules, most of the GMs I played with were talented enough just to make up something fun and reasonable on the spot. This remains true for all three systems.

My guess is that 1ed has its fans, and they have already stuck with it past 2ed, so their opinion isn't going to change. Those that switched from 1ed to 2ed, which in my experience were very similar, got tired of the same mechanic and were looking for a change - 3ed.

I think that all three systems have their strengths and weaknesses AND their fans and haters. No one system is right for everyone. I don't really understand the hatred that seems to well up against 2ed, which really isn't *that* different from 3ed, by those who previously played it. Hey, it's all RPGing in the name of fun.

 

[shilsen]

THAC0

 

[teitan]

I started gaming a year before 2E came out and I loved it. We used a mix and match of OD&D and 1E (all we had was a Player's Handbook for 1E, 1st printing no less and the Expert and Master's Boxed Sets) and it worked out just fine. ABout 8 months before 2E came out we got a DMG and MMI&II and the FR boxed set and some of the FR series books and played off of that and OA for a few more months. When 2E came out we didn't really hop over because it wasn't a big deal back then. One new player came in the game with a PHB for 2E and wow was it pretty. We bought a DMG and I devoured it and ran probably the best damn campaign I have ever run using the 2E PHB and DMG and MMI&II for 1E, as well as the monster book for ORIGINAL DnD, y'know the little pamphlet books.

Back then, 2E seemed to really just be a simplification of some of the more abstract elements of the 1E, things like Thac0 were simpler than the combat matrix chart but were still the same. 2E didn't start out bad but after they finished the core PHBR books it started to get that way and cross referencing, half assed boxed sets that didn't provide sphere information for deities, supplements that only listed deity NAMES for god's sake (GH 98, I am looking at you) and reliance on OOP and over priced material resulted in a mess of Valdez proportions in gaming. But the mess wasn't that bad... forget all the various PHBR books (well, the Priest comes in handy in my example), build your own world or use the Realms, the three core rules and monster supplements and the Priest book and you have a damn nifty system to use. Not the best, but we had more fun playing DnD with just the core books than we did with the PHBR books (the most frustrating cross referencing came from these books).

There was so much I wanted to love about 2E, the settings were great, Dark Sun and Planescape being the obvious examples. I loved Planescape and using the Priests book with it really helped with the lack of the Legends & Lore book, y'know, the pricey OOP book for that line. The general idea that everyone had to have everything factor really hurt the game though as it permutated the sourcebooks.

I would not want to play a 2E game. I would have to relearn the whole thing and it was so hard to explain to people how to play, you just had to show them and even then... it was very hard to grasp the concept. 1E on the other hand... I could run that right now with the right players and the old FR boxed set and the FR series of books or the Temple of EE or GDQ series...

I miss a few things... being able to fit a character on the front and back of a 3x5 notecard for one. The simplicity of character creation and NPC generation being another. Now there is so much to account for and it gets very frustrating sometimes, but overall 3E is a much better game, better implemented and a lot more exciting and allowing for better customization than the previous 2 editions.

And anyone who think 1E was more customizable than 2E... WTF.

 

[Altalazar]

I loved 2E - I loved 1E - I played both even after 2E came out.

I loved Ravenloft. I loved Al-Quadim. I loved a lot of that stuff.

And I loved Speciality Priests.

I have many fond memories of 2E - when that came out is when I made my game world / pantheon / everything, which I've used ever since when I DM. (See house rules for thread on my pantheon).

So no bashing here. Oh, and I really like 3E. I haven't tried 3.5E - I haven't even really read it, but I'm sure that's what I'd play once I get going again, which may be soon.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I love D&D 2e, started playing in 1989 w/ 2e, own tons of stuff. 3.5 is better, but I love 2e.

 

[Belegbeth]

To summarize some things that have been said already, and to add to them as well:

1E DnD had a certain quirky charm. It was written by a single author who had a very distinctive style. There were lots of interesting, if esoteric and idiosyncratic, elements to it (I still enjoy reading the descriptions of the "artifacts and relics" in the DMG). The spirit of Vance, Leiber and Howard came through somehow in those pages. There was an exciting "newness" to it: the first mention of those mysterious Drow in "Against the Giants," etc. Also, it was pretty brazen for its time: I remember looking a little too often at certain pictures in the original Deities and Demigods . It had Demons and Devils, baby! And Assasins. And REAL Illusionists! And the legendary "Master of Flowers."

2E DnD fixed up the rules SOMEWHAT. But it sacrificed a lot of the charm of 1E (and other features as well, like Monks, Assassins, etc).

It was a slightly "cleaned up" and -- unfortunately -- "sanitized" or "politically correct" version of 1E. (No demons or devils! What happened to Asmodeus, ruler of HELL?! No more Erol Otus.)

I didn't really play DnD much during the 90s. 2E was one big reason.

3E DnD has a much more coherent and consistent set of rules than either 1E or 2E. It lacks the charm of 1E, IMO, and seems to promote a focus on "the rules" that is unfortunate. Its rule books also seem too slick for their own good. But it is hard to deny the superiority of the rules. They simply make more sense than 1E or 2E, and afford greater flexibility to players and DMs. (Now, if only combat didn't take so damn long...)

In short: 1E has a certain quirky charm to it (hence its fans), whereas 3E is both slick and coherent (hence its current popularity). 2E lacks either of these features. Consequently, 2E has few advocates. 1E is the original Atari; 3E is the X-box. 2E is Colecovision.

 

[jsaving]

The question isn't that difficult to answer. 2e was written for one reason and one reason alone: to get rid of Gygax as PH author. It wasn't written to improve 1e mechanics (though it did improve at least a few of them), nor was it written to add flavor to the game (though a few settings created during the 2e days did add flavor), nor was it written because there was much demand for an update (though some people were excited when it was released). It succeeded in doing what TSR wanted it to do, but it didn't succeed in giving players a demonstrably better product, and in failing to do this it also eliminated many of the flavorful features that drew gamers to AD&D in the first place.

 

[Creamsteak]

I've only played a few sessions with OD&D books, and then went straight to 3e. Did have offers to join people in thier "superior" second edition games, but they always came off as unenjoyed by myself. 3e rules are better, but OD&D was by far more "Wow!" and "Oooh..."

 

[rounser]

There is nothing worthwhile to champion in it.

1) Kits. Concept was fine, and a lot better for roleplaying purposes than prestige classes IMO. Implementation sucked in places, as it now does for prestige classes (and they were going to save us all...funny how things turn out eh). I think they were a victim of a witch hunt.

2) Campaign settings. From Birthright to Al Qadim to Planescape to Dark Sun, 2E remains the best edition with regards to campaign setting offerings.