Why all the Second Edition Haters?

[Calico_Jack73]

Let's talk about the benefits of playing 2E.

1) Improved math skills among the players: Nowdays with positive ACs everything is too easy. You just roll, add, and compare. Thac0s forced you to learn to number crunch in your head. "Let's see, I rolled a 12 and I have a +2 to hit from my STR and +1 from my sword and another +1 from weapon specialization and my Thac0 is 15, that means I hit <<pause while brows furrow to do the math>> an AC of -1".

2) There weren't rules for EVERY FRICKING THING!: DM's could make rules calls on the fly without having to worry about the rules lawyer of the group quoting a rule that contradicts the DM's call and citing page numbers. I hate that more than anything!!!

3) Quality of support material: I have yet to find a single 3E product that has been useful as my various Volo's Guides. I still use them ALL THE TIME. As I said before... it was the DM's edition. Everything was geared to make it as easy as possible for a DM to run a game.

Anything else the rest of you can think of?

 

[Scotley]

I started playing just before 1e. My first actual purchase was the 1e players handbook, within days of its release, and I had a great time playing that game. I've been buying new books as soon as I can ever since. When 2e came along I thought it was an improvement because it had better organization (at first) and some increase in rules logic. The various add-ons increased options and as others have said there was some great fluff in that era. I think you have to look at 2e as having 3 incarnations. First was the initial core books, then the splat books era, finally the players option era. I played all these and have a huge collection of books still on my shealf. I have lots of fond memories of those days. The problem was that the 3 incarnations lacked consistency and everybody had their own way of dealing with the broken rules, and they were broken more often than not. I enjoyed playing with our regular group, but found that wandering into someone else's game was rarely a good thing. Poorly documented house rules and munchkin abuses were rampent and I rarely found a new group to be fun. That's why I prefer 3.x DnD. The rules are better balanced as well as more logical and much as we enjoyed our own house rules--I'm sure you all enjoyed your's too--its much more pleasant to join a game where there are few rules surprises.

The bottom line is that as much as I enjoyed gaming in the 1e and 2e days, I find the system is better under 3.5 than its ever been before. I do look back on the earlier editions with fondness, but I don't plan to go back. I still get out the old books for fluff and ideas, but when it comes time to play its 3.5 much as it was 1e over odnd, and unearthed arcana/survival guide over 1e, 2e over 1e, and players option over 2e.

Scotley

 

[Scotley]

Yes, the idea of selling multiple books to players is basically new and people should be more aware that it didn't use to happen, it's obviously financially motivated, and it has a real effect (I think a largely negative one) on RPG campaigns if not on the industry.

I would have to despute this a little bit. I really think it started with the splat books in the 2e era. Its has gotten out of hand. I think there are too few really good products for gamemasters. I understand the economics of it, but I don't like it. I found it interesting that several some chapters in the "Players Guide to Forgotten Realms" are clearly aimed at the DM--Magic items and for your campaign stuff in particular. I expect that the new Players Guide to the planes will be a similarly mixed player/DM book just marketed to draw the interest of the most purchasers.

Scotley

 

[Arnwyn]

No 2e hating from me. I have very fond memories of my 2e years, and I enjoyed myself immensely. Some things I even miss (the much quicker and easier prep time, for one. Prepping for a 3e game sucks the life out of me. Conversely, though, I have found running a 3e game to be a dream compared to 2e. Ah, there's always trade-offs). In any case, whenever I hear the complaining, I just shrug and ignore.

 

[Ottergame]

I like the new system, and would never, ever touch 2ed edition, even if it were the last game on earth. I -like- having a coherant system where I don't have to hope the DM isn't an idiot rulesmaker when I ask him if I can jump a gap or try to attack someone's weapon. I know the rules, I can transplant myself into 99% of the 3x groups out there and not feel worried about what assinine house rules the DM has come up with to patch the holes in the system.

While assinine house rules and idiot rulesmaking DMs will always exist, 3x cuts down on it greatly.

And a player-centric book line is great! I love having books out there I can use to help plot out a character as a player. There's nothing stopping a DM from using these books for ideas too.

 

[Silver Moon]

Uh, THACO was around in 1e. My 1e DMG has it listed.

Yeah but in 1e good old Thaco was just one of many guests at the party, while in 2e he was the host.

 

[baradtgnome]

I'm not much of a hater. Moving our gaming group to new rules is a serious use of energy that can be used to game instead. Our evaluation of 2E was that it didn't meet the cost benefit bar for our group. 3E did. Simple. YMMV

The end result is that you have 1e players (laggards)

Silver Moon you laggard

 

[Silver Moon]

Silver Moon you laggard

What do you expect? I still listen to music on something known as records.

 

[FireLance]

I don't hate 2e, any more than I hate my old 286 computer. I just don't use it any longer because my Pentium laptop is sooo much better .

 

[FireLance]

2) There weren't rules for EVERY FRICKING THING!: DM's could make rules calls on the fly without having to worry about the rules lawyer of the group quoting a rule that contradicts the DM's call and citing page numbers. I hate that more than anything!!!

Call me a consistency fanboy, but I see this as a great advantage of 3e over 2e. As a player, I like to know that my success or failure is not the result of DM arbitrariness. As a DM, I like to know that I am being "fair" to my players. It creates a better sense of realism for me when the same action is resolved in the same way all the time.