Why are Lycanthropes less virulent now?

True Lycanthropes (those born werewolves) still spread the disease, but infected one do not. That is a big important deal and a welcomed change. While infected are the traditional "angst" dual-personality lycanthropes, it didn't make sense that lycanthropes could spread the disease willy-nilly. Assuming each Lycanthrope bit (and infected) one person every month (during the three day full moon) that means every month the lycanthrope population doubled.

One Month: 1
Two: Months 2
Three: Months 4
Four Months 8
Five Months 16
Six Months 32
Seven Months 64
Eight Months 128
Nine Months 256
Ten Months 512
Eleven Months 1024
One Year: 2048 new lycanthropes.

You could easily have a small city of nothing but infected lycanthropes!

On the practical side; it allows for a slightly weaken a lycanthrope (no chance of infection, lower DR) to make for suitable low-level challenge, or for DMs who don't want to bother with infected PCs.
 

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I had a DM once that played lycanthropes a similar way. The group would go so sleep, only to find that one (or more) of its members were not there in the morning. The players whose characters were missing would be told things like: "You wake up next to a tree. In the distance you can just see the edge of the village." or "You wake up in some bushes, a coppery taste in your mouth and what looks like spots of blood on your fingers and hands. You cannot see the village, but the sounds of it seem to be coming from the north."

The character (and at first even the PC) usually did not know what was going on for a while. While they could eventually learn to force a change at times other than the full moon, they had little or no control over what happened during the change. Even if they managed to force the change, the best they could do then was to tell the DM what they wished to accomplish. Most of the time they had little control over their changed character - the DM either controlled it, set limits / requirements to its actions, &/or required Will saves for various types of actions, as the character's mind sought to control or at least influence the mind of their altered form.

Also, the DM ruled that you either had the animal form or the hybrid form, but not both, and once changed you had as much trouble reverting to norm (before the next dawn) as you did forcing the change in the first place (if it was forced). Control was not made with a Control Shape skill; instead it used Will saves, and if you failed you were potentially a threat to those around you. Depending on the nature of the curse (he rolled a few times anyone became infected, determining metal weaknesses, nature of the curse, what (little) degree of control the PC had, and whether the PC remembered anything, etc), the N/PC might attack friends or might attack only non-friends. Some lycanthropic curses were worse than others, requiring the character to feed on fresh meat before they could regain their normal form or control.

In the long run, I actually preferred this style.

One thing I dislike about modern D&D is the lack of risk. Everything is made as easy for the characters as possible so that the players are just about always having fun. While I can admit that fun should be a significant part of the game, the game needs risks to overcome or outwit, problems that are not easily or readily solved - and that do not also grant a boon. The feel of triumph in overcoming an obstacle is greater if the risk / trouble needed to accomplish it is greater. Problems that are easily solved or grant such a boon that the player has no wish to solve them will never give any real sense of accomplishment or triumph. Problems that bedevil the player for several game sessions or perhaps even an entire campaign - only to be finally overcome at / near the end of it - those are the ones that the player will feel true triumph over and will recall months and even years later.

Curses are often either easily broken or as much a boon as they are a curse. Lycanthropy should not be something that a character, once infected, wants to spread around to his friends so that they too can gain the benefits of it. It should be something horrific, something that weighs on the mind and burdens the soul, something that the character will seek any means of either removing or at least repressing.

I understand that my view is not the typical view, but that is the way I feel on the matter.
 
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Remathilis said:
True Lycanthropes (those born werewolves) still spread the disease, but infected one do not. That is a big important deal and a welcomed change. While infected are the traditional "angst" dual-personality lycanthropes, it didn't make sense that lycanthropes could spread the disease willy-nilly. Assuming each Lycanthrope bit (and infected) one person every month (during the three day full moon) that means every month the lycanthrope population doubled.

One Month: 1
Two: Months 2
Three: Months 4
Four Months 8
Five Months 16
Six Months 32
Seven Months 64
Eight Months 128
Nine Months 256
Ten Months 512
Eleven Months 1024
One Year: 2048 new lycanthropes.

You could easily have a small city of nothing but infected lycanthropes!

On the practical side; it allows for a slightly weaken a lycanthrope (no chance of infection, lower DR) to make for suitable low-level challenge, or for DMs who don't want to bother with infected PCs.
Assuming those people survive the bite. If the lycanthrope attacks and eats one humanoid each night, it's likely to be sated for the rest of the night, preferring to run through the wilderness with common animals of its kind.

Also, in Ravenloft you had to kill the original True lycanthrope that began the strain of lycanthropy that infected you before even attempting a cure. Infected lycanthropes can pass along the curse there.
 

Emirikol said:
Why are Lycanthropes less virulent now? Didn't the simple bite do you in for past editions (and historically)?
Historically, werewolves didnt pass on lycanthropy. That's entirely a product of modern hollywood (Much like the current view of vampires). In most of the legends, a man voluntarily underwent various processes to turn into a werewolf, including salves, wearing of special items, drinking the water from a wolves footprint, or signing pacts with devils. DND Lycanthropy is uniquely its own and always has been.
 

Numion said:
I thought that a single bite can turn you a lucanthrope in 3E, if an (easy) save is failed. If it doesn't work that way, too bad for one of my players whose character has succumbed to it twice :heh:

No, you were correct. That's the way it works.
 

D.Shaffer said:
Historically, werewolves didnt pass on lycanthropy. That's entirely a product of modern hollywood (Much like the current view of vampires).

Now that you mention it, I recall reading traditional werewolf stories in which an evil person becomes a werewolf because they are so evil, instead of the person turning evil because of being a werewolf.
 

Actually, it worked both ways. There *were* ways to become a shape-shifter / werewolf, but the lycanthropes that resulted were not themselves infected, nor did they pass on lycanthropy. However, different areas had different beliefs, and some areas had the belief that lycanthropy was a terrible infectious curse. It only came from surviving a bite from another thus infected. Some believed that the church could cure it, others that the slaying of the one that bit them would remove the curse (from them and any others bitten by that particular werewolf). Still others thought that the curse could not be broken. Indeed, there were some that believed that if a person died while under such a curse, they were doomed to rise as a vampire after death.

And yes, it did tend to suggest a situation whereby those infected should eventually take over the world with their numbers. At the time it was believed that they were held in check only because (1) those bitten were usually consumed / slain, and (2) as soon as one was discovered, it was swiftly hunted down and destroyed. Those infected during the hunt had various rituals, prayers, etc the church could put them through to remove the infection. If that failed, they too were destroyed - albeit while they were a monster, so that their death was not a stain upon the souls of those that slew him, as it was actually the possessing fiend / curse that was being killed (so as to free the entrapped soul from its torment of being trapped in a body doing such terrible things).

Also, those that believed that slaying the infecter could cure all those infected by that werewolf were of the opinion that every now and then a werewolf was slain for infecting one, when in fact they had infected several others as well - all of which were then cured by the slaying of the one originator. And if any of those others now cured had been infecting others, then those too were now also cured, as their infecter was no longer a werewolf. Think of it like a tree (real or diagram). If you cut off one branch, all the lesser branches on it are also removed from the tree, as are all the twigs attached to those lesser branches. Somewhere out there is the original werewolf, or at least the most ancient werewolf currently living. Once it is slain most if not all of the werewolves currently alive would be cured, as they all derive from that one werewolf.

Of course, the medieval peoples who were of this view tended to think that the devil was ultimately responsible, so upon day of the final judgement, when the devil, its legions of fiends, and all the souls sent to hell were finally destroyed, so too would all werewolves be cured, as the source of lycanthopy had itself finally been removed. Again, this was only the belief of some parts of europe. The idea of shifting into another form is ancient, found everywhere in every culture at some point in its most ancient legends.

Vampires - and to a lesser extent werewolves - often had symbolism associated with disease. There is a very real possibility that the idea of werewolves being infectious was directly drawn from vampire mythos. And as with werewolves, vampires could be derived both from non-infection means and via infection by another vampire (although rare was the locale that believed that slaying the original infecting vampire would restore the infected to health, as the infected were nearly always already dead). Non infectious means of becoming a vampire were: being buried in unhallowed ground, dying via suicide, dying after a particularly horrific life of murder and other atrocities, and so forth.
 
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Nyeshet said:
I had a DM once that played lycanthropes a similar way. The group would go so sleep, only to find that one (or more) of its members were not there in the morning. The players whose characters were missing would be told things like: "You wake up next to a tree. In the distance you can just see the edge of the village." or "You wake up in some bushes, a coppery taste in your mouth and what looks like spots of blood on your fingers and hands. You cannot see the village, but the sounds of it seem to be coming from the north."
[sblock]
The character (and at first even the PC) usually did not know what was going on for a while. While they could eventually learn to force a change at times other than the full moon, they had little or no control over what happened during the change. Even if they managed to force the change, the best they could do then was to tell the DM what they wished to accomplish. Most of the time they had little control over their changed character - the DM either controlled it, set limits / requirements to its actions, &/or required Will saves for various types of actions, as the character's mind sought to control or at least influence the mind of their altered form.

Also, the DM ruled that you either had the animal form or the hybrid form, but not both, and once changed you had as much trouble reverting to norm (before the next dawn) as you did forcing the change in the first place (if it was forced). Control was not made with a Control Shape skill; instead it used Will saves, and if you failed you were potentially a threat to those around you. Depending on the nature of the curse (he rolled a few times anyone became infected, determining metal weaknesses, nature of the curse, what (little) degree of control the PC had, and whether the PC remembered anything, etc), the N/PC might attack friends or might attack only non-friends. Some lycanthropic curses were worse than others, requiring the character to feed on fresh meat before they could regain their normal form or control.

In the long run, I actually preferred this style.

One thing I dislike about modern D&D is the lack of risk. Everything is made as easy for the characters as possible so that the players are just about always having fun. While I can admit that fun should be a significant part of the game, the game needs risks to overcome or outwit, problems that are not easily or readily solved - and that do not also grant a boon. The feel of triumph in overcoming an obstacle is greater if the risk / trouble needed to accomplish it is greater. Problems that are easily solved or grant such a boon that the player has no wish to solve them will never give any real sense of accomplishment or triumph. Problems that bedevil the player for several game sessions or perhaps even an entire campaign - only to be finally overcome at / near the end of it - those are the ones that the player will feel true triumph over and will recall months and even years later.

Curses are often either easily broken or as much a boon as they are a curse. Lycanthropy should not be something that a character, once infected, wants to spread around to his friends so that they too can gain the benefits of it. It should be something horrific, something that weighs on the mind and burdens the soul, something that the character will seek any means of either removing or at least repressing.

I understand that my view is not the typical view, but that is the way I feel on the matter.[/sblock]
I love these ideas! Especially about the variable factors (discourages metagaming). I've often thought that lycanthropy should be all about the temporary replacement of the PC with a monster - not giving monstrous powers to a PC.

Kudos to your old DM.
 

Yeah, he really knew what he was doing. Too bad he moved to the other side of the continent a few years ago. (He's in the navy.) I haven't seen nor heard from him in a while.

He would roll to determine whether copper, silver, gold, iron, platinum, mithril, etc would affect the changed PC. He had a chart with percentages, and rolling one number, for instance, might make the lycanthrope harmed / DR passed by Copper, Gold, and Platinum. I chose that example as it actually happened to one of the other players. He eventually gained some control over his form, but to keep himself from flying off (He was a werehawk, one of th types that hunts in the dawn / dusk period and during brighter moonlit nights.) and waking up in odd places he got a strong silver cage for himself (didn't want to hurt himself, just contain himself). It could have been iron, but after having spent several game sessions only able to touch silver coins, he grew to rather like the metal. :)

Because of the rolls the DM made when he got infected, he was never able to remember what happened, but he was eventually able to learn to force the change to occur and to give some initial direction to its actions. He did not attack his friends, and he was lucky enough to be able to eat raw animal meat instead of being limited to fresh and raw human(oid) meat. Also, because of the roll that determined whether he would / could learn of his curse, for the longest time he was unable to accept any evidence of his curse. He was in an enforced state of denial (requiring a will save to attempt to overcome this each time new evidence was presented to him). It must have taken nearly a half dozen game sessions before his character finally 'realized' the truth of his condition and allowed the group to try to help him. He was infectious, but it could only be passed on to humanoids, and his other form hunted other animals (rats, voles, other birds, sometimes lizards, etc - ie: normal hawk food).

Another was more difficult to deal with. He was 'allergic' (as the DM called it) to silver and iron, and while he was aware of his curse and could recall what he did while in it, he could not control himself. He was a traditional wolf as well, and he tended to attack any fresh meat he could find, although due to the DM's roll his will save to resist attacking team mates and others he wished to avoid was rather easy (something like a DC 8 or 9 as I recall; the DM tended to roll 3d6 and add 2 to the result, for an average of about 12.5). SO he tended to leave the camp and go looking for bandits, goblins, etc to attack. He was (thankfully) non-infectious, as a few got away from him.

Also, there were rolls to determine which phase of the moon resulted in transformation and whether transformation could occur involuntarily if the character suffered extreme damage or a near death experience (ie: succeeding by less than five on a save or die effect or a save vs massive damage).

All in all, it worked rather well for the group. There was some hope: either it was an inconvenience the party could work around (such as caging the first character each night of the full moon), or it could be cured (as eventually occurred with the actual werewolf in the group), or it could be repressed. The campaign was were-centric, and my character also came down with it, but later on he found an amulet that while worn would prevent the transformation. The down side was that it detected as evil, causing all sorts of problems with clerics, etc.
 

Why are they less virulent? Because they've been taking Lycanex(tm). Lyncanex is clinically proven to reduce lycanthropic outbreaks and transmission of the lycanthropic curse. Side effects include nasuea, headaches, urinary tract infection, and mange. Do not take Lycanex if you are pregnant, nursing, or may become pregnant.
 

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