Why are people not interested in RPG?

Because RPG *isn't* A+B+C. RPGs are qualitatively different from those things, enough so that you can't just slide from one to the other like that.

Well but at least I did the slide years ago ;)

You do realize there's an anti-intellectual current in some segments of our society, yes? Using your brain is nerdy. Actively using your imagination is immature. RPGs do both of those things, and do so without a veneer of something otherwise socially acceptable to hide behind.

I agree but I wouldn't be too pessimistic about it... everyone has one side of her/himself pulling down towards sloth, and another side pulling up towards challenges, even if they are just games or free time (e.g. sports, reading, etc.).

But I disagree strongly on the bit about imagination or creativity being considered immature.
 

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I'll share my experiences.

I've introduced a very wide array of people to D&D during my life time, from seriously ALL walks of life. I'll list a few of those I have introduced to D&D since I've been an adult:

Two clowns (m) and a pair of tightrope walkers (f), a street magician (m), a physiotherapist (f), a tarot card reader (f), a dental technician (m), a podiatrist (f), an eco-energy salesman (m), an accountant (f), a nurse (f), a kung fu teacher (m), an optometrist (f), two factory workers (m), a high school teacher (f), an artisan (f), a graphic designer (f), a theatre actor/lead singer of a punk band and his drummer (m), a mother of 8 kids (f), two of those teenage kids who are twins (one plays electric guitar the other is a drummer) (m), and a musician (m).

I may have missed some.

The cool thing about playing D&D with these folk was that they had never played D&D before with the exception of one of them (one of the factory workers). So I didn't have any of 'those guys' playing the game being a know it all or looking down their nose at typical RPG tropes that popped up in games like starting the game in a tavern or whatever. Everything was shiny new to them. And their enjoyment fed into my enjoyment which fed into their enjoyment ...

Some of the comments when I was roping them into it were related to the stigma of the psycho murders back in the day ... you know what I'm talking about. And others were of 'nah, that *explicit word* is for nerds/losers/wierdos/whatever. However quite a few of the comments were of curiosity, of 'always wanting to have tried 'role' out and see what it was about but never having the chance'.

I'm not in the least bit geeky or nerdy, never have been never will. I don't say that in a derogatory way to those who are. Just stating what may or may not be a relevant fact. So I was able to get past those biases through sheer force of conviction of how much fun D&D is and that they should just try it and see what it's about. And I guess the games I ran backed up what I was saying. Not all of those people become D&Ders, a good few did. But all of them enjoyed themselves, and many were surprised at how much they had enjoyed themselves.

Some, who had committed to more long term games more recently, dropped out due to the fact that, as parents, we were only able to organise games on the weekend after kids had been put to bed, which meant that our normal games were going past 2am in the morning on a regular basis and it was just too much for them, physically.

So in conclusion, I think the force of personality and the conviction behind the person rounding up people to play and running the game plays a big part in whether people are willing to give it a go or not. I'd say for those who do give it a go reluctantly, well then their experience will invariably depend on whoever the DM is making it a fun and exciting experience for them. Kids, jobs and work, they are definite factors. But in my last group every member had at least 2 kids, was married, and both parents held down regular jobs, including myself. But we were having that much fun that we went out of our way to make it work.

All of these experiences have been in Europe where the stigma of D&D and likewise the fame are perhaps less than what it may be in the States. I don't know, I've never been to the States to be able to gauge that, but it is a point that occurred to me that I thought might be worth mentioning.

Having moved back to my country of origin fairly recently, (New Zealand) having had to disband what was my best and most enjoyable campaign ever after nearly 3 years, I am now eyeing up the friends we are beginning to make, trying to pinpoint who might make good members of my next group. So far I have a masseuse and a doctor in my sights! With my wife and faithful sidekick, only need 1 or 2 more and it's game on again!
 

You do realize there's an anti-intellectual current in some segments of our society, yes? Using your brain is nerdy. Actively using your imagination is immature. RPGs do both of those things, and do so without a veneer of something otherwise socially acceptable to hide behind.

This sounds like GAS, Government and Academics are Stupid. It's a term that I've heard about since the '90s. It seems to tie into Politics (a verboten topic here), and I find its proponents tend to push an agenda that doesn't quite sound good for Me put is presented as if it was good for me, but it works out well for our New Robot Overlords.

I think there are social forces pushing back. Nerds are considered cool in the media, more often than they used to be. And its not like we're seeing wholesale Luddite movements where everbody abandons technology and smart stuff.
 


Sadly wholesale Luddite movements and cultivated ignorance are everywhere. Thirty years ago many people in the UK could maintain their own cars, often carry-out quite significant repairs to their own vehicles, navigate by planning a route first on a map . . .

Now they hand that off to the on-board computers and the software upgrade service department. The convenience is great, but the skills are gone and there are whole tiers of costs that used to involve little more than changing the oil yourself.

The vinyl disc used to be an experiment in science classes where kids made their own disc using a nail and a piece of plastic - now a proportion of them have a vague clue about how to run an app on magical devices that they couldn't begin to build for themselves.

. . . so are kids essentially lazy and demotivated - or do we make them appear that way?

Equally, is there any part of that that doesn't apply to TTRPGs in terms of trading shrink-wrapped convenience for player choice and GM input - to the point where skills were lost and administration replaced imagination?

I don't think you've given a precise comparison. Luddites eschew technology for simpler times. The majority of Americans aren't saying technology is bad or avoiding it. They simply don't know how to make or fix any of that. Amercians want to USE technology. Luddites do not.

What's going on, and your vinyl recording example illustrates this, is that the technological complexity has risen sufficiently high, where a person can't master a quite of skills to encompass a variety of projects/technologies.

It's trivial to make a homemade vinyl record player as a science project. The technology involved is pretty basic. It is not so trivial to learn the skills to make a small MP3 player from base electronic components, file management OS, MP3 file to audio signal interpreter.

Old car motors can be disassembled and fixed because it is inherently obvious what the problem is during disassembly. Bad hoses, wires, corrosion and crud build-up, worn parts could be identified with the naked eye. You could solder together your own Altair computer because the chips and parts are big enough to see what you're doing with a soldering iron from Radio Shack.

Cars aren't so simple today. Computers are assembled with machines, because of the FINE connectors involved. You can't make an iPhone from scratch with a $10 soldering iron from Radio Shack.

I don't disagree that people don't know how to do as much as they used to. But the barrier to entry has risen on a lot of things, making people be simple Users, rather than User/Builders.
 

To be fair, taking care of a modern car requires equipment most "shade-tree mechanics" simply can't afford. I used to do all kinds of stuff for my audio equipment, but see no point in doing what it would take to do likewise for an iPod. None of that required skills in electronics...or computers. They do now.

Simply put, the investment in time, skill & equipment to do tasks analogous to those of yesteryear are greater than ever.

Edit: for some reason, Teh Interwebz took forever to post my "quick reply", so Janx beat me to it...
 

The two biggest hurdles in my experience are:

1) Too much reading and research. Too many games out there, with too many splatbooks and editions and revisions, and they're too long and complicated.

2) too shy/concerned about how weird/intense the experience is socially.

That's about it, but they are enormous hurdles.

Youtube videos of (attractive) people playing D&D help with the 2nd. The 1st can't be helped unless RPG companies trying to make money by selling information dumps. There needs to be a totally different business model.
 


I don't think you've given a precise comparison. Luddites eschew technology for simpler times. The majority of Americans aren't saying technology is bad or avoiding it. They simply don't know how to make or fix any of that. Amercians want to USE technology. Luddites do not.

What's going on, and your vinyl recording example illustrates this, is that the technological complexity has risen sufficiently high, where a person can't master a quite of skills to encompass a variety of projects/technologies.

It's trivial to make a homemade vinyl record player as a science project. The technology involved is pretty basic. It is not so trivial to learn the skills to make a small MP3 player from base electronic components, file management OS, MP3 file to audio signal interpreter.

Old car motors can be disassembled and fixed because it is inherently obvious what the problem is during disassembly. Bad hoses, wires, corrosion and crud build-up, worn parts could be identified with the naked eye. You could solder together your own Altair computer because the chips and parts are big enough to see what you're doing with a soldering iron from Radio Shack.

Cars aren't so simple today. Computers are assembled with machines, because of the FINE connectors involved. You can't make an iPhone from scratch with a $10 soldering iron from Radio Shack.

I don't disagree that people don't know how to do as much as they used to. But the barrier to entry has risen on a lot of things, making people be simple Users, rather than User/Builders.

That condescending low point of a post is a reminder of why I rarely visit here now.

Mod Note: Ladies and gents, quoting a long hunk of post you don't like, only to add a one-line threadcrap, does not help to improve the quality of postings. If you don't like something, try leading by example, rather than by accusation. Thanks. ~Umbran
 
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2) too shy/concerned about how weird/intense the experience is socially.

Yeah, to many of my friends I realized I'm a closet gamer.

One buddy (massage therapist, m) who I mentioned I still play D&D to was surprised and said "I thought that's for kids?' I then showed him the Like a D6 and he had a chuckle about it, and I offered to teach him but he was strapped for time.

Another friend (human resources, m) recently learned about the game book I wrote and told me "You're a bigger geek than I thought!"

My ex-girlfriend ragged on me on several occasions about being a super geek, and though she was into Harry Potter and fantasy was never interested in gaming.

Then among my fellow gamers I am probably in the middle of the casual-hardcore spectrum. My last group included an economist (m), 3 ethnomusicologists/musicians (f), a linguist (m), a musician (m), a software engineer (m)...and later on a computer security specialist (m), and a MBA student (f). And me, an aspiring architect (m).
 

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