Why are you looking forward (or not looking forward) to Eberron?

[Wombat]

Not really looking forward to it, but then again I'm not a fan of campaign setting someone else creates just in general -- I prefer my own worlds.

But on a more fundamental level, I'm worried that Eberron will go the way of Rifts -- keep adding rules and adding races and adding monsters and adding magic and adding widgets and soon you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Thank you all for the great responses.

I think that I may actually take a look at Eberron and pick it up!

(If it isn't $40 or $50, but I should be realistic )

 

[WizarDru]

I guess I just don't see that.
Ok, maybe "Sky Pirates" explicitly would stand out in Greyhawk. But it is still just a specific instance of a thematic element.

I'm not sure I follow what you're asking. Henry pretty much said what I would have. Are you asking what is different mechanically? Some elements, but I suspect it won't be that dramatically different from the core than say, Faerun.

But the point is that Eberron appears to be designed with these elements as an integral part of the setting. Greyhawk was assemebled, piece-meal, over a protracted period of time. It isn't an internally consistent setting, as much as I love it. I could add Sky-Pirates and flying conveyances as a common form of transport...but then I'd have to change all sorts of other elements which no longer make sense. A good chunk of Greyhawk history wouldn't make much sense if many of Eberron's features (such as magically powered mass transit and cargo movement) existed there. Many elements of Greyhawk become changed, as well. There's a crased vessel in the Barrier Peaks? Take a skyship and fly over the mountains until you find it, and then airlift it out. Take the lightning rail and move your troops to Geoff, so we can repel the invasion of the Giants. You get the idea.

From a mechanical standpoint, we don't know, yet. There may be new skills, feats, and custom mechanics to deal with these elementally powered transports...things that don't exist in the core, such as their construction, piloting and combat elements.

That isn't to say I couldn't do it, or that it wouldn't be fun to do....but I don't have that kind of time, frankly. It would be a lot of work to shoehorn those elements into the existing setting and think of the ramifications of it....the same way that Midnight could be done in the core, but with the same problems for me.

 

[BryonD]

Well, ok, you said "many of", but then you only referenced mass transport.

And cool, I will certainly allow that a built in mass transport system is new an different part of the setting.

But people are not saying Eberron is cool because it has mass transport, they are saying it is cool because of the pulp feel.

Which brings me back to my question. Does simply the presence of mass transport somehow make it a pulp noir setting? I certainly do not see that.
What other built in setting things make this true?

Perhaps once we do learn some more mechanical things I will be enthused as well. But the question now is based on information we already have.

Right now it seesm to be a swashbuckling/pulp/noir setting simply because WotC says so rather than because the setting itself makes that clear.

 

[WizarDru]

What other built in setting things make this true?

Perhaps once we do learn some more mechanical things I will be enthused as well. But the question now is based on information we already have.

Right now it seesm to be a swashbuckling/pulp/noir setting simply because WotC says so rather than because the setting itself makes that clear.

That's fair, but I didn't go on about every possible thing, because I just don't know, either. But I can say that the artwork and the material released so far indicate a setting that is interesting to me, and elicits that kind of feel, to me.

Let me ask you this....do you only see mechanics as the element that defines a setting, or are you just highlighting that in specific? That is, if the political, cultural and social systems that are introduced do not require new rules or modifying existing mechanics, would that indicate to you that it's not worth doing as a separate setting?

 

[DaveMage]

I'm looking forward to it simply because it beat out 10,999 other worlds as the best for WotC to produce.

Besides, Keith Baker is clearly talented, so I'm sure it will be a good idea generator if nothing else.

 

[BryonD]

That's fair, but I didn't go on about every possible thing, because I just don't know, either. But I can say that the artwork and the material released so far indicate a setting that is interesting to me, and elicits that kind of feel, to me.

Let me ask you this....do you only see mechanics as the element that defines a setting, or are you just highlighting that in specific? That is, if the political, cultural and social systems that are introduced do not require new rules or modifying existing mechanics, would that indicate to you that it's not worth doing as a separate setting?

No, I am not claiming it is purely mechanical, of course not.
Social elements are what settings should be all about.
FR and Greyhawk are (more or less) default western europe middle ages fantasy
Ravenloft is dark eastern europe gothic
Dark Sun is bleak, sparse, quasi-apocolyptic, brutal, psionic
Etc....

What I have seen from Eberron so far indicates that it is built around more integratation of multiple cultures (primarily based on mass transit) AND uses magic as faux-technology to provide something closer to steam-magic, or at least clearly more advanced than middle ages.

These things ARE what a setting is all about. And like I said, based on those things I find it interesting, but am not sold yet. Nothing negative, just not enough info so far.

But that has not been my question. I don't see anything in Eberron that makes it any more supportive of noir than anything else. I can easily do non-noir stuff in Eberron and I can easily do noir stuff in Dark Sun.

So I am still with my question. Why do people keep saying that Eberron is a noir setting? I think that answer is that WotC said so.

Noir is not setting, noir is plot.
I can use D20 modern to run a noir game set in the Bahamas in 2004 or to run a non-noir game in 1938 Chicago.

EDIT: I realize YOU didn't use the term noir. But I don't see why the plot elements you did describe can't be used in an all but superficially equivalent manner in any setting. And I see that as being all under the same Indiana Jones meets Casablanca umbrella

 

[drnuncheon]

The mechanics things we've seen do suggest there will be a little bit more swashing of bucklers in Eberron - I'm thinking specifically of the action points system that was previewed in Dragon.

As for 'unique', I'd say that one of the things that makes it unique is that the author seems to have tried to work out at least some of the logical consequences of the existence of D&D-style magic, rather than handwaving it away.

J

 

[BryonD]

The mechanics things we've seen do suggest there will be a little bit more swashing of bucklers in Eberron - I'm thinking specifically of the action points system that was previewed in Dragon.

Yeah, ok. That is a fair point.

To me that just makes the swashbucklers more high-powered rather than making them more pervasive. Action points are in D20 modern, but nobody considers that to be built in pulp or noir. But my question was regarding OTHER people's perception, so you do have a very valid point.

As for 'unique', I'd say that one of the things that makes it unique is that the author seems to have tried to work out at least some of the logical consequences of the existence of D&D-style magic, rather than handwaving it away.
J

Certainly. I've never disputed that and I even mentioned it already. On that count it is simply a matter of if you want magical pseudo-tech or if you want classical fairy tale middle ages with wizards. If you want the former you should lean a little toward Eberron, the later, then lean a little away.

Personally, I prefer the classical version. But not nearly enough to not steal from Eberron or use it as a change of pace.

 

[WizarDru]

But that has not been my question. I don't see anything in Eberron that makes it any more supportive of noir than anything else. I can easily do non-noir stuff in Eberron and I can easily do noir stuff in Dark Sun.

So I am still with my question. Why do people keep saying that Eberron is a noir setting? I think that answer is that WotC said so.

Noir is not setting, noir is plot.
I can use D20 modern to run a noir game set in the Bahamas in 2004 or to run a non-noir game in 1938 Chicago.

Ahhh...I see. Point taken. Personally, I don't think of Eberron as Noir, but more of an E.R. Burroughs 'John Carter of Mars' type setting. And I think things like the action point setting, the art and the promo material gave me that pulp feeling...but I readily agree that it could just as easily be done in the settings you describe. Heck, wasn't the movie "Tequila Sunrise" basically noir in the Bahamas? And 1938 Chicago has probably seen more Cthulu in RPGing than gangsters.

I think you're right to be cautious. WotC is releasing little drips and drops, and it's hard to tell if it really is what they say it's going to be. I'm looking forward to it, but I'm a junkie.